Today’s news:

Vinegar Hill Neighborhood Association says Brooklyn Waterfront Greenway would ruin streets

Vinegar Hill residents fear bike lane would harm ‘Belgian block’ streets

The Brooklyn Paper

Vinegar Hill residents aren’t exactly throwing rocks at bicyclists, but they are pointing to their historic stone streets as a reason to keep a bike lane out of their neighborhood.

Two petitions from the Vinegar Hill Neighborhood Association attack the Brooklyn Waterfront Greenway — a planned 14-mile bike lane stretching from Greenpoint to Bay Ridge along the water — as a threat to their roadways, and their way of life.

One of the petitions hosted at change.org, demands the Greenway be re-routed out of the small residential neighborhood in order to protect Water Street’s historic Belgian blocks — and prevent a steady stream of cyclists from disrupting the quaint atmosphere of their historic district.

“The use of Vinegar Hill by the Greenway would pose a danger to pedestrians, to motorists, to our Belgian block cobblestones, and to the historic character of our neighborhood,” reads the petition, which had 98 supporters signing on as of Mar. 21.

“[The] Greenway would bring thousands of bikers from all over that would add noise, traffic hazards, and garbage to a neighborhood that currently has none of that,” one signer, resident Kathryn Gurland, wrote on the website.

Another petition by the Neighborhood Association opposes the use of “machine-altered” cobblestones for street repairs in the neighborhood, insisting that only hand-crafted or salvaged Belgian blocks are fit for their landmarked neighborhood. That petition also specifically singles out the proposed Greenway bike lane as a threat to their streets’ character.

Six blocks of Water Street in Vinegar Hill are currently included in the Greenway proposal, but Brian McCormick, the Greenway’s Director of Development, said he’s happy to listen to the Vinegar Hill Neighborhood Association’s concerns.

“It’s a process that’s been going on for a long time via our public planning workshops,” McCormick said, adding that Vinegar Hill residents are still welcome to present alternatives to the bike path in a public forum.

Reach reporter Jaime Lutz at jlutz@cnglocal.com or by calling (718) 260-8310. Follow her on Twitter @jaime_lutz.

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manposeur from brokeland says:
Who the heck are these NIMB's? Really bicycles create noise?
March 22, 2013, 8:33 am
manposeur from brokeland says:
Who the heck are these NIMB's? Really bicycles create noise?
March 22, 2013, 8:33 am
Mike from Williamsburg says:
They lost me at "motorists" in the defense of their "historic" neighborhood. But I'm open to changing my mind when they show me some 19th century daguerrotypes featuring Honda Civics.
March 22, 2013, 8:43 am
jon b from south brooklyn says:
Ahhh...the notoriously cranky and insular activists of vinegar hill. it's kinda of disingenuous to say your a quaint hamlet while being sandwiched between con edison plant and sizable NYCHA complex. Moreover, just curious if Kathryn Gurland asked her neighbors over at Farragut what they think. Moreover, a community that obsesses about it precious cobblestones and parking spaces while ignoring its zoned public school, it is not really a community at all, it's cabal.
March 22, 2013, 9:03 am
Jane from dumbo says:
Dear Vinegar Hill,

Welcome to NYC. You are no longer some secret backwater. Deal with it. People are coming to your neighborhood real soon. Better they come by bike than car. Man up, and figure out way to make the bikepath work for residents and visitors. An intractable position will do you no good at this point.
March 22, 2013, 9:11 am
Jane from dumbo says:
Dear Vinegar Hill,

Welcome to NYC. You are no longer some secret backwater. Deal with it. People are coming to your neighborhood real soon. Better they come by bike than car. Man up, and figure out way to make the bikepath work for residents and visitors. An intractable position will do you no good at this point.
March 22, 2013, 9:11 am
sajh from brooklyn heights says:
Is the opposition more then designation or the DOT digging up the cobblestone street to give right of way for this? I can understand if it is the latter. Having cyclists going down the street is already happening so I am guessing this article distorts what the actual concern is, which is ripping up the original cobblestones and replacing it with faux materials and then further and most likely painting lines on the cobblestone street to designate the area. I believe the concern is that the cobblestone streets are unique, beautiful and attractive as they are so putting in bike lanes would be the same effect of paving over the cobblestones and painting lines on the asphalt. It will completely change the look and feel of the street. So the real solution would seem to be just designate the lane with street signs but dont touch the cobblestone road. Who needs a lane anyway since as we know cars rarely pay attention to them.
March 22, 2013, 9:52 am
Johnnie Walker from SoHo says:
I live in SoHo and have to constantly dodge all the selfish, rude and arrogant cyclists on the sidewalk, because these p*ssies are too frightened or distraught to ride on the bumpy Belgian Blocks.

And, yes, Belgian blocks are much noisier than asphalt = tires push air into the joints which create a whooshing sound. I hear every car pass by, even when they go just 15-20 miles an hour.
(I don't hear bikes' noise because their p*ssy riders don't want their frail little bodies dangled by the bumpy stonework, so they ride illegally on our sidewalks.)

I'm with the Vinegar Hill residents, who were likely living in their neighborhood, when the whiners on this comments section were learning to ride their tricycles on some cul-de-sac in Suburbia, USA.

You should move back there if you want to bike so badly.
March 22, 2013, 9:56 am
ty from pps says:
Yeah... look at these cobblestones. There is nothing that screams perfection like this. Why would you want to change this!?

http://goo.gl/maps/sxkmG

Historic areas throughout Europe seem to have survived with smoothed cobblestones in designated bike lanes. I've ridden a bike on many of them. And I don't remember a lot of noise from the bicycles.... noise from cars driving over the adjacent rough cobbles? yes. but not the bicycles.
March 22, 2013, 10:03 am
ty from pps says:
I mean really... could you imagine how horrible something like this would be?!

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/21247777/2/stock-photo-21247777-bicycle-in-bike-lane.jpg

How ugly. How out of context. TWO types of paving stones on one street? Oh, the humanity!
March 22, 2013, 10:06 am
ty from pps says:
sajh -- Most of Vinegar Hill is cobblestone paved over with asphalt (except for a couple of streets that aren't even part of the Greenway plan). These petitions are delusional NIMBY BS.

I'm not sure what you mean by "faux" materials. But "belgian block" does not have to mean the extremely rough cobblestones. Why does a granite block have to be a rounded, rough thing to be considered to have a "historical" flavor? That is ridiculous.

The rough cobbles are extremely loud with cars (I know, I lived in a studio on the ground floor in Belgium that was rough cobbles and open to commercial traffic in the morning -- pedestrian only other times) and are not pleasant surfaces for *ANY* vehicle.
March 22, 2013, 10:21 am
anonymous from clinton hill says:
to ignorant Johnnie Walker from soho. Cobblestones not only are uncomfortable for bikes but also damage rim, spokes and hub. Basically the whole wheel. a$$****.
March 22, 2013, 10:36 am
anonymous from clinton hill says:
to ignorant Johnnie Walker from soho. Cobblestones not only are uncomfortable for bikes but also damage rim, spokes and hub. Basically the whole wheel. a$$****.
March 22, 2013, 10:36 am
anonymous from clinton hill says:
to ignorant Johnnie Walker from soho. Cobblestones not only are uncomfortable for bikes but also damage rim, spokes and hub. Basically the whole wheel. a$$****.
March 22, 2013, 10:36 am
anonymous from clinton hill says:
to ignorant Johnnie Walker from soho. Cobblestones not only are uncomfortable for bikes but also damage rim, spokes and hub. Basically the whole wheel. a$$****.
March 22, 2013, 10:36 am
anonymous from clinton hill says:
to ignorant Johnnie Walker from soho. Cobblestones not only are uncomfortable for bikes but also damage rim, spokes and hub. Basically the whole wheel. a$$****.
March 22, 2013, 10:36 am
Johnnie Walker from SoHo says:
To Anon.@10:36

Oohh,,poor little baby..
Belgian blocks are uncomfortable? Let me cry for you!
We pedestrians feel sooooo sorry for your little baby butt.

And we are sooo concerned that your little toy might get damaged. Maybe Daddy will buy you a new one for Christmas.

You know what's uncomfortable, little baby?:
Adults riding on the sidewalk.
THAT'S what's uncomfortable!

Hey, dimwit, if you want to ride comfortably, cycle over a block and ride on asphalt. Or is that too much effort for my little guy?

Or just ride back to Mom's house in Suburbia and cycle you hearts content on her cul-de-sac.
March 22, 2013, 11:14 am
Johnnie Walker from SoHo says:
To Anon.@10:36

Oohh,,poor little baby..
Belgian blocks are uncomfortable? Let me cry for you!
We pedestrians feel sooooo sorry for your little baby butt.

And we are sooo concerned that your little toy might get damaged. Maybe Daddy will buy you a new one for Christmas.

You know what's uncomfortable, little baby?:
Adults riding on the sidewalk.
THAT'S what's uncomfortable!

Hey, dimwit, if you want to ride comfortably, cycle over a block and ride on asphalt. Or is that too much effort for my little guy?

Or just ride back to Mom's house in Suburbia and cycle you hearts content on her cul-de-sac.
March 22, 2013, 11:14 am
ty from pps says:
"And we are sooo concerned that your little toy might get damaged."

And there it is folks... No reason to engage the ignorant Johnny Walker.
March 22, 2013, 11:21 am
ty from pps says:
(Though it does seem Mr. Walker could *walk* just a block over where there's asphalt streets... no bikes on the sidewalk there. Is that too much effort? Or is there a reason he is on that particular street? Maybe that's also why the person on the bike is on that street? Hmm....)
March 22, 2013, 11:23 am
Johnnie Walker from SoHo says:
ty from pps:

Pedestrians are allowed to walk on sidewalks; cyclists must stay off them.
Or are you ignorant of that law, little?

No, I think not. You are just so damn self-entitled that you expect people to walk a block so you and your ilk can ride illegally on our sidewalks, endangering public safety

Your arrogant attitude is precisely the reason that so many people disdain cyclists.

We are tired of your obsessive comments on this blog:go back to the suburbs and comment there.

Your ignorance is exceeded only by your arrogance.
March 22, 2013, 11:39 am
ty from pps says:
Johnnie --

The city did not provide cyclists with an appropriate road surface to use on the street you are using as an example. They did, however, provide pedestrians with an appropriate surface.

If the sidewalk was rough cobbles -- preventing wheelchairs easy access, creating a dangerous situation for the elderly, and making it difficult to clear ice and snow -- would you be calling protesting pedestrians "so damn self-entitled" and "arrogant"? And if the roadway was a better, safer place to walk... would you be saying the pedestrians are "endangering public safety"?

By the way, you ignorant, self-righteous, navel gazing douchebag -- I've never lived in the suburbs (other than for very short periods of time). However, I've lived in many other urban environments other than New York City and have many points of reference. None of which are suburban.
March 22, 2013, 11:51 am
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Johnnie Walker is Sean Sweeney. He hates bikes and constantly wants people who aren't "from" SoHo to stay out of its business. Yet here he is, poking into Brooklyn's business.

If you love cars so much, move to Houston!

Smoother cobblestones will benefit pedestrians, too, especially people in wheelchairs or with limited mobility who need to cross the street.

The pro-car enthusiasts need to stop being so selfish. A street that's safe for a cyclist is safe for a lot of people. A street that is only safe for cars excludes the majority of people!
March 22, 2013, 12:12 pm
Johnny Hammersticks from Brooklyn says:
I think it's an awesome idea. I like riding from Bay Ridge to Ceasars Bay. A path on the water from Bay Ridge to Greenpoint would be awesome, and would provide a solid 20 miles of safe riding with a sweet view.

Hopefully they will ban those filthy, skinny jeans wearing hipsters and their 10 speed schwinn bikes from clogging the path from normal bike riders.
March 22, 2013, 12:16 pm
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Sean is angry because there are a lot of cobblestone streets in SoHo that are in desperate need of repair, yet he believes that DOT has ignored his requests while focusing on "silly toys" like bikes. As if the two are mutually exclusive.

Sean could learn something from the old adage about catching more flies with honey than vinegar.
March 22, 2013, 12:20 pm
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on sidewalks in last four years: zero.

Number of pedestrians killed by drivers on sidewalks in last four weeks: three.
March 22, 2013, 12:21 pm
Ibid from park slope says:
I can't tell you how many times I've had to dodge the rude, arrogant, entitled motorists who swarm my neighborhood on a daily basis.
March 22, 2013, 1:04 pm
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Cute. But I'm not Ian Dutton.

And great job with that whole honey and vinegar thing, Sean! Your attacks on a person's girlfriend certainly lend credence to your substantive anti-bicycle, pro-status-quo arguments.

Keep it up! No wonder DOT is always so willing to do exactly as you request.

March 22, 2013, 1:48 pm
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Remember when Sean Sweeney stood up for poor Jessica Dworkin who was killed by a truck driver in Sean's neighborhood? Remember when Sean immediately called for traffic calming?

No? That's right! Because he was going on and on trying to show what a tough man he is by insulting people on bikes.

This, from a guy who still lives with his mother!
March 22, 2013, 1:51 pm
malembi from bk says:
diehipster is a knob
March 22, 2013, 2:29 pm
Johnnie Walker from SoHo says:
Ian, you pathetic little person.

The fact that you would erroneously reference someone's tragic death in a futile attempt to score cheap points shows what a despicably perverted person you really are.
March 22, 2013, 2:38 pm
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Ha! Insult someone's girlfriend and sexuality with vulgarities that get flagged by the comment system? That's fair game in Sean's world. Insult someone's mom? Too far! (I'm not Ian, by the way. Very sorry to hear about your loss, but please make a list of which topics are cool and which are off limits, alright?)

Any comment on Jessica Dworkin yet?
March 22, 2013, 3:05 pm
Johnnie Walker from SoHo says:
Take your meds, Ian. You are clearly losing it. Come back down to earth and start making sense.

Meanwhile, I'm through toying with you. I have things to do .
Go get your purple wand, if you want to be toyed with further.
March 22, 2013, 3:14 pm
Brooklyn resident from Brooklyn says:
Again, I'm not Ian. I only know who he is from comments here and there. But you haven't denied that you're Sean, so I guess you're the real deal.

Have a nice day.
March 22, 2013, 3:24 pm
adamben from bedstuy says:
ever try riding on cobbles? oy! i think that after a few broken wheels riders will say " no thank you".
March 22, 2013, 3:34 pm
Dr. Freud from Vienna says:
This Sean/Johnnie Walker fellow seems awfully fixated by and obsessed with Ian's sexual proclivities.

Just sayin...
March 22, 2013, 3:43 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Who in the right mind would ride a bicycle on cobblestone streets? That doesn't even feel safe. Riding them faster on those will make it actually hard for them to stay up especially on rough edges. More importantly, the streets are pretty narrow for any bike lanes that can lead to traffic there. I do agree with what Johnnie Walker had to say about cyclists flouting the laws, because that is very true and something has to be done about them. For the record, I don't know this guy personally, and I doubt that he is really Sean Sweeny, who probably has better things to do than come here. Speaking of him, if anyone actually looks him up, he isn't anti-bicycle at all, but I guess to Streetsbloggers, you have to be either with them or against them.
March 22, 2013, 4:17 pm
ty from pps says:
To get back on track... I will repeat.

Yeah... look at these cobblestones. There is nothing that screams perfection like this. Why would you want to change this!?

http://goo.gl/maps/sxkmG

Historic areas throughout Europe seem to have survived with smoothed cobblestones in designated bike lanes. I've ridden a bike on many of them. And I don't remember a lot of noise from the bicycles.... noise from cars driving over the adjacent rough cobbles? yes. but not the bicycles.

I mean really... could you imagine how horrible something like this would be?!

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/21247777/2/stock-photo-21247777-bicycle-in-bike-lane.jpg

How ugly. How out of context. TWO types of paving stones on one street? Oh, the humanity!

These NIMBYs in Vinegar Hill are total idiots.
March 22, 2013, 4:22 pm
Numbers from Math says:
52 people killed this year in crashes involving cars.

0 people killed this year, last year, the year before, and the year before that by cyclists. The year before that, only one person was killed.

But, yes, let's all be up in arms about bicvcles.
March 22, 2013, 5:35 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
"These NIMBYs in Vinegar Hill are total idiots."

Try looking at the causes to why they are opposed rather than the effects. Calling them an idiot really gets you nowhere. All this does is make them feel that you are some kind of zealot. Of course, you are lucky to be on a faceless message board, so it's easy to make personal attacks when they can't see you, which is the case for many of such kind online.
March 22, 2013, 6:24 pm
Jay from NYC says:
55 killed by the mta subways, should we ban them? Thats more than killed by cars according to you "numbers" yes, no?
This study says 1,000 people in NYC are hit by bikes every year, 500 who wind up in the hospital. Obviously cars hitting people results in greater chance of death, but that is like saying because murder is worse than getting beat up in a mugging, we should ignore muggings, when in reality both are bad. see article on gthe studfy it at http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/09/19/study-approximately-1000-pedestrians-struck-by-bikes-annually-in-new-york/
As for the street, (thanks for the pic ty) that is nothing for a decent mountain bike, for a pseudo lance armstrong wanna be loser d-bag with a road bike with 3mm tires, mavis rims, and carbon fiber frame, you will suffer, but how is that any different from a chevy cruze being driven on a back dirt road instead of a jeep? If your bike can't handle the terrain, you don't go there with it. Yes, no?
I don't have an issue with bike lane, but I am not sure why the surface should be changed?
March 22, 2013, 6:32 pm
Jay from NYC says:
55 killed by the mta subways, should we ban them? Thats more than killed by cars according to you "numbers" yes, no?
This study says 1,000 people in NYC are hit by bikes every year, 500 who wind up in the hospital. Obviously cars hitting people results in greater chance of death, but that is like saying because murder is worse than getting beat up in a mugging, we should ignore muggings, when in reality both are bad. see article on gthe studfy it at http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/09/19/study-approximately-1000-pedestrians-struck-by-bikes-annually-in-new-york/
As for the street, (thanks for the pic ty) that is nothing for a decent mountain bike, for a pseudo lance armstrong wanna be loser d-bag with a road bike with 3mm tires, mavis rims, and carbon fiber frame, you will suffer, but how is that any different from a chevy cruze being driven on a back dirt road instead of a jeep? If your bike can't handle the terrain, you don't go there with it. Yes, no?
I don't have an issue with bike lane, but I am not sure why the surface should be changed?
March 22, 2013, 6:33 pm
ty from pps says:
"Try looking at the causes to why they are opposed rather than the effects."

That is an equally stupid comment, Tal. All of my comments above are critical of these NIMBYs view of the "causes" as you put it.

Do you even know where Vinegar Hill is, Tal? ya know, before you searched for it on the map?
March 22, 2013, 6:39 pm
JAY from NYC says:
not for nothing, but since we are talking numbers for the first six months of 2010 police issued 13,632 tickets to bikers on sidewalks, so it does seem that this is a real problem, but maybe biker lanes would end that? See it at http://gothamist.com/2010/09/21/wife_of_husband_killed_by_bicycle_r.php
March 22, 2013, 6:54 pm
ty from pps says:
And Jay -- Not for nothing, most folks generalize about cyclists based on the horrendous behavior of delivery guys on bikes... not commuters and people running errands. The delivery guys that seem to go *out of their way* to rid the wrong way down streets and ride on sidewalks.

But, as with everything, the NYPD doesn't prioritize safety. So they'll continue their "ticket blitzes" when it's politically necessary.... ya know, to get a big article in the New York Post. And continue to ignore the delivery guys who are probably the most dangerous folks on bikes -- well, and more and more on even more dangerous electric bike contraptions.

The delivery guys should be ticketed and the businesses should be fined. There should be a "Safe Delivery" campaign... educating businesses and their employees.
March 22, 2013, 7:23 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, I have been there not that long ago, so I know what it's like. Unfortunately, it has faced a lot of gentrification, and evens sees new development as some areas aren't part of the historic district. Seriously, not every area needs to have bike lanes, and this neighborhood doesn't want them to begin with. Since you are not there on a normal basis, you will probably never know why they are truly against it.
March 22, 2013, 7:41 pm
ty from pps says:
I bet I'll be there a lot more than you, Dumb Dumb Tal.
March 22, 2013, 7:43 pm
jay from nyc says:
ty I don't disagree with your premiss necessarily, but I would add to it this, first I have been hit three times by bikes last year, got minor injuries, none of them were bike messengers, have had a number of near misses in the last year, only one a bike messenger, see bikes on sidewalks, despite bike lane, every other day, none of them bike messengers.
Now I DO see alot of the delivery guys going the wrong way on a street, and yes many are those electric bikes (Iam not even sure if those things are legal in NYC, I think the answer is no, but not 100% sure) and that you are right about, but for me, I am not generalizing about commercial bikes, but bikers in general, based on my own limited experience, and in it, its the "regular folks" who are the bigger problem, just because there are more of them maybe.
Thats not to say the bike messengers are not a problem either, but I think they tend to only be in certain sections on Manhattan, rather than city wide. For me I have had more problems with the regular folks, and 13 thousand tickets for being on a sidewalk in just six months seems really high and indicative of a problem.
Maybe more bike lanes and some education would move the bad bikers off the sidewalks and into the bike lanes, which I think would probably be better for almost everyone, but thats just my two cents.
IN the meantime, do what I did, and declare Tal dead to you and ignore him, he is a troll, and not worthy of spending your time(of course, its up to you to decide what and who your time is worth), and if a enough people ignore him, he will go away.
March 22, 2013, 8:07 pm
Newlots says:
Harm the belgian block streets??? Nyc is getting weirder and weirder Bloomberg sure picked winners to populate te city. They don't like music - dogs shat everywhere you can walk and they worried about bricks on the road? wtf!
March 22, 2013, 8:34 pm
ty from pps says:
What does Bloomberg have to do with the weird townies in Vinegar Hill?
March 22, 2013, 9:29 pm
Wayne from Bay Ridge says:
Cyclists sure are a bunch of whining little creeps.
March 22, 2013, 9:58 pm
Paul from Ditmas says:
i bet a good chunk of those injured by bicycles were:

- jaywalking
- crossing or steppig into the street carelessly
- iPhone texting
- Dr. Dre "Beat"-walking
- completely unaware, oblivious to their surroundings

it's completely plausible to be guilty of all five. people walk around with their heads so far up their Asses today.
March 23, 2013, 12:05 am
JAY from NYC says:
well paul in 4 of those 5 things you listed they were legally in the right of way, so even if you are correct (which is PURE speculation on your part and not worth crap) you are STILL wrong,so take your uninformed biases and put em in your 6th pint of contact where it belongs.
March 23, 2013, 12:37 am
Mike from UES says:
"people walk around with their heads so far up their Asses today."

YOU are a Prime example!
March 23, 2013, 9:52 am
Stu from Clinton Hill says:
That Sean guy is crazy! What a jerk.
March 23, 2013, 2:39 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
"What does Bloomberg have to do with the weird townies in Vinegar Hill?"

Unless you have been living under a rock, Bloomberg has been very much in favor of gentrifying numerous neighborhoods throughout the city.
March 23, 2013, 4:46 pm
Paul from Ditmas says:
you guys just secrete narcissism. i bet you talk to strangers like this in person too. probably not. i guess using the internet just gives you the green light to judge, classify, and insult people.

also, JAY FROM NYC _____ how are my real-life observations "uninformed" bias?
March 23, 2013, 8:29 pm
jay from nyc says:
paul the fact that you need to ask says it all
March 23, 2013, 8:42 pm
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
Everyone just has to learn to get along.
March 24, 2013, 4:47 am
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
Except Tal, who has to learn to mind his own business.
March 24, 2013, 4:47 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Paul, unfortunately, many do try to use the internet to be someone they are not. Part of the reason is because they can't be seen in person, so they can pass up whatever they want. The reason they shout personal attacks at actual activists is because they are actually too cowardly to do that in person. Also, they will probably never talk to them because they are probably more afraid of them than the other way around, plus they are probably afraid that they will get debunked due to the fact that they are not what they believed they were. At least I actually to go out in real life, and I don't do this for bragging rights, I do this because I feel that it helps me express how I feel about the issue, and just posting on a faceless message board does actually nothing buy make you no more than a fly on the wall. Overall, I do practice what I preach.
March 24, 2013, 1:15 pm
ty from pps says:
Tal -- Oh, you're an activist? You should start a group. I'd join.
March 24, 2013, 1:25 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, I am not part of any group, I actually represent myself at numerous hearings, though there are many that do share the same ideas as I do.
March 24, 2013, 1:29 pm
Peter Engel from Fort Greene says:
Every May there's a little bike ride that goes through Vinegar Hill with 32,000 cyclists. It's called the Five Boro Bike Tour. Did you ever hear of it? It's the second biggest recreational event on City streets after the NYC Marathon.

Guess what? They ride the cobblestone streets of Vinegar Hill, mostly without incident. They've been doing it for 36 years. Crazy, huh?

Tal, if you're a real person, I suspect you live in a nuclear bomb shelter. I can't understand your limited grasp on reality.
March 24, 2013, 4:04 pm
ty from pps says:
Peter - I think the Five Boro tour goes down Front Street (asphalt), so it avoids the cobbles. At least it did last year... but I think that asphalt may actually be a recent change in the last few years and was cobbles before.

I don't disagree that cobbles are totally doable on a bike, I've ridden on many such streets, just not ideal. In fact, these rough cobbles are pretty horrible for any vehicle. Granite block is a great investment, but the rough hewn stones are impracticable.

That said, I think you must be right about Tal. There's no way he actually sees the outside world as much as he claims. I'd say no more than three or four times a year when his mom brings him to see his special doctor.
March 24, 2013, 5:38 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
How nice that you guys say a bunch of things about me that are so false. If anyone needs to go outside, it's you guys. Also, I find those statements by both Peter Engel and and ty to be downright insulting and cowardly at the same time. However, I feel that you guys describe yourselves more than me. At least I do have a life outside of my computer. More importantly, you guys had your say on having a greenway there, and the residents of Vinegar Hill had theirs'. Since it will be in their neighborhood with them living with it, they have every right to be concerned about it. I don't see why it's wrong for them to oppose when they have the right to especially when some of you expressed how much you have the right to be supporting it.
March 24, 2013, 6:59 pm
Peter Engel from Fort Greene says:
Tal, no cowardice here. That's my name and neighborhood. Mine is just one man's opinion but I think you're off your rocker.

You'd do well to heed the words of our greatest American President, Abraham Lincoln:

"It is better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

And now I'll do something smart and follow Mark Twain's advice about arguing with idiots.
March 24, 2013, 8:31 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Peter, I will call you for slander on what you said about me living in a bomb shelter, because I don't. If you got anymore myths about me, I will gladly debunk them for you. I too am speaking from where I live, and I do find someone making such attacks online to be a cowardly act, which is my opinion as well. The same goes with name calling that I find to be very unprofessional especially when it comes to debates. Since you like to use quotes, I will use one from Michael Moore, "I don't hate the person themselves, just the ideas they think of." He said this over at the Barnes and Nobles by Union Square last year when I saw him there introducing his latest book, Here Comes Trouble. At least I don't attack the person, I just merely disagree with them, and I have nothing against those that wish to disagree with me, just those that attack such as you that I am against. Again, if the residents of Vinegar Hill oppose the bike lanes, they do have the right to say so. I find those that are attacking them on numerous online message boards like this one to be very insulting. Maybe they just don't want them and that's it. Do cyclists really need every street they can get for bike lanes? How about spending that money to help with the public schools and hospitals that have to close due to the lack of funds. Overall, you are coward in my book, and that is what really matters to me.
March 24, 2013, 9:43 pm
ty from pps says:
Tal -
I will call you for slander for calling Peter a cowards. And I will debunk your claims that Michael Moore doesn't like bike lanes. It's below the belt where I come from to say that hospitals are funding bike lanes! You, sir, are the coward! You should know I want to read your book.
March 24, 2013, 9:55 pm
"Tal" from Somewhere says:
Do driversreally need every street they can get for car lanes? How about spending that money to help with the public schools and hospitals that have to close due to the lack of funds.
March 25, 2013, 10:39 am
Mike Naylor from Gravesend says:
"Do driversreally need every street they can get for car lanes?"

Do cyclists need every street to ride for bike lanes, even 150 year old cobblestoned street?
March 25, 2013, 2:22 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Mike Naylor, that comment at 10:39 AM today wasn't done by me, it was done by someone pretending to be me. I feel that not every street needs a bike lane especially when they can just follow the rules of the road just like all other vehicles do. I never could understand why they feel that their needs outweigh everyone else's. I guess they don't actually care about public schools and hospitals closing due to the lack of funds just as long as they can get their bike lanes.
March 25, 2013, 4:05 pm
ty from pps says:
Mike Naylor -- Just as an FYI, the cobblestone streets in Vinegar Hill that are actually in good shape are actually quite new... as in years, not centuries.

The ones in question look like this:

http://goo.gl/maps/sxkmG

And these streets will be eventually fixed... i.e., replaced with a new road surface. A NEW road. The freight rail tracks (or are they trolley tracks?) will probably be removed too. The folks in Vinegar Hill probably aren't making much of a stink about that. They want it to be "historical" but it doesn't have to be completely historical. Just the parts they prefer for their own NIMBY purposes.

Interesting... the neighborhood WANTS city intervention for historical landmarking and they want the city resources to fix up the neighborhood and they want the city resources to enforce landmark requirements... but they don't actually want to be part of the city. A simple thing like routing the Greenway Path on Water Street is too much to ask.

A friggin' greenway recreational path... not a damn bus route or an elevated subway track. No, a greenway. This will be "harmful" to their community.

What a bunch of douchebags.
March 25, 2013, 4:24 pm
ty from pps says:
(Tal -- you're an idiot... do you recall what this article is about? It's about a Recreational Greenway along the entire Brooklyn waterfront.... this isn't the run-of-the-mill bikelane that you love to whine about.)
March 25, 2013, 4:27 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, as I have said before, you had your say on this, and the residents living there have theirs'. If they really don't want this greenway, then it shouldn't be forced on them. What is so hard to understand about that? I'm really getting annoyed by hearing those that oppose this have to be nothing more than NIMBYs and are being selfish when this is really looking at the effects of their opposition rather than the causes. The term NIMBY was thrown in as nothing more than a way to downplay any individual or group that expressed opposition as well as pit neighbors against each other as being divided on them.
March 25, 2013, 4:50 pm
ty from pps says:
"If they really don't want [xxxx], then it shouldn't be forced on them."

Yes, Tal. That is how society works. Jesus H. Christmas, you are friggin' stupid. And learn English for chrissake. It's clear you're not moving back to Israel, so learn to write properly in the language with which you torment us.

"as well as pit neighbors against each other as being divided on them." That is not English. That is incoherent dumbness.
March 25, 2013, 6:36 pm
Mike Naylor from Gravesend says:
Your lack of knowledge of historic districts and preservation is incredible.
For starters, those are Belgian blocks, not 'cobblestones'. Anything else I can educate you on?

Let's try with the fact that the blocks have been around since the 19th century. They are protected. End of story.

DOT has no right destroying historic material just to placate some guys on bicycles. That masonry was around before you were born, and we NYers who have a sense of history want them to be there after you've gone.

To suggest there be NEW roads in an old district shows your utter lack of preservation principles and your glaring lack of respect for NY history.

All you seem to have done on this page is to mock and attack others, offering nothing positive and constructive.

You are a poor spokesman for the cycling community, of which I am one. You need an attitude adjustment, badly.
March 25, 2013, 7:12 pm
Mike Naylor from Gravesend says:
"Jesus H. Christmas, you are friggin' stupid. And learn English for chrissake. It's clear you're not moving back to Israel"

Furthermore, you abuse of people's religion, both Christian and Jewish, is appalling, especially today, the first day of Passover and the beginning of Easter week.

Your remarks show that you are a detestable, loathsome excuse for a human being, a true hater on so many levels.
March 25, 2013, 7:19 pm
ty from pps says:
Mike Naylor...

Tal is Israeli. I was abusing his ignorance of the English language and the fact that he has no plans of using his "mother tongue" any time soon. He should maybe think of figuring out a new one. I don't care if he's Jewish.

I'm sure Jesus forgives me.

And I think Jesus will also forgive me for using the term "cobblestone" when referring to Belgian blocks or setts.

If the cobbl... err... Belgian block is so damn historical and should be protected at all costs, do you think those train tracks will also be protected at all costs? It would be a shame for the city to resurface Water Street and not preserve those, vital to the neighborhood's character, unused iron rails. In fact, if there are any damaged sections, they should be repaired, no?

Why, Mike Naylor, can historical districts around the world make simple modifications such as... I dunno... use smooth road pavers, but in New York that would be considered a "glaring lack of respect for NY history."

Why, Mike Naylor, are smooth(er) road pavers more an affront to the historical charm and preservation than parallel parked cars on all of these streets?
March 25, 2013, 8:24 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
I cannot ever forgive the streetsblogger zealouts on this site for the years of abuse they have heaped my way on account of my debunkmanship abilities. They don't like the cartesian logic that I apply b/c it inevitably invalidates their arguments. Whether it is the freedumb tower, the WNBA, or bike lanes, I find that their arguments wither in the face of my facts. I take personal issue with the Israeli statement as that is a hit way below the belt where I come from. Just b/c I don't live in Brooklyn does not mean my views are less important. My rabbi told me to sue, and I am seriously considering to do so, unless I recieve an immediate apology and a lump sum of monies to compensate for the years of verbal abuse. Irreguaurdlessly, I find the religious attacks dispeckable during Passover.
April 3, 2013, 8:58 am
sfranzsophie@hotmail.com from vinegar hill, brooklyn nyc says:
HOW CAN I CONTACT A VINEGAR HILL HISTORICAL ASSOC ? IS THERE A PHONE # FOR IT? MY FAMILY LIVED THERE IN 1900/40. I VISITED THERE LAST NOV. I HOPE U CAN HELP ME. nick squeglia
Jan. 17, 2:35 pm

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