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Crackdown! City hitting cyclists with twice as many tickets

The Brooklyn Paper
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Cops are slapping cyclists with nearly double the number of traffic tickets in the wake of a “crackdown” on rogue bikers in Brooklyn.

Officers wrote at least 695 bicycle summonses in the borough during the month of February — compared to just 375 in the same period last year — with cops citing “pedestrian safety” as the impetus for the booming ticket blitz.

But critics on two-wheelers — straight-laced commuters, bad boys on fixed gears and bike shop owners among them — say there hasn’t been enough outreach or accident data to suggest a need for enforcing rules that police once simply ignored.

“It comes as a real shock,” said Erin Quirk, who claims to be a cautious cyclist who was nonetheless ticketed for running a red light on Ashland Place near Myrtle Avenue on Dec. 16.

“I ride my bike everyday; I made a judgment call — and I don’t think I was taking an extraordinary risk,” she said, claiming that the light was yellow. “If they’re going to enforce laws they never did before, they should give us a warning.”

Quirk fought the $190 ticket in court, but lost.

By law, bicycles are treated like cars — and a rogue cyclist can also rack up tickets for riding on the sidewalk or against the flow of traffic.

The summons figures released to The Brooklyn Paper this week are the first tangible evidence that the NYPD’s crackdown against cyclists — announced in January — is more than just a collection of anecdotes from annoyed peddlers.

The crackdown comes at an awkward time for the Bloomberg Administration, which has spent much of the past two years encouraging cycling by painting hundreds of miles of new bike lanes.

As a result, more New Yorkers are cycling than ever. In 2009, the bicycle advocacy group Transportation Alternatives estimated that more than 236,000 people bike in the five boroughs — 28 percent more than the year before.

But the result has been a bikelash; new lanes have become hotly contested as pedestrians and drivers seek to have the pendulum swing back to their mode of transportation. On the Prospect Park West bike lane, for example, opponents complain that it has made the boulevard less safe for pedestrians.

The crackdown was needed because of a rise in bicycle accidents and to ensure “pedestrian safety,” said a police spokeswoman, but the city has not released any data to back up the assertion that more enforcement is needed.

As a result, cyclists are skeptical of the effort, insisting that the tickets are just a way for the city rake in cash and show it is serious about making cyclists abide by the rules of the road.

“They’re probably thinking it’s payback time,” said David Dixon, owner of Dixon’s Bicycle Shop in Park Slope. “I bet you the captain’s got a bug up under his ass.”

Dixon says customers are constantly complaining about “silly” tickets. But some tales from the crackdown show the need for enforcement and police restraint.

Early in the ticket blitz, for example, one man got three tickets from a single incident on Union Avenue near S. Third Street in Williamsburg: One for riding on the sidewalk, another for riding against traffic — and the last for mouthing off to the officer who stopped him in the first place.

“I know it’s a safety issue,” said Tejas Singh, 26. “But three friggin’ tickets? For riding a bike?”

Updated 12:47 pm, April 6, 2011
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Reasonable discourse

Mike from Williamsburg says:
I think a compromise could be reached if the NYPD focused on ticketing bikers going against traffic. That is ticketing bikers for the cause of other bikers' safety.
April 6, 2011, 12:28 am
joebkny says:
Well Erin quirk shouldn't be riding her fancy bike down myrtle avenue past dark. doesn't she know it will get jacked
April 6, 2011, 4:26 am
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
There needs to be more outreach to bike riders that we need to follow the rules of the road. Perhaps some signs in the bike lane that say "ONE WAY IS FOR BIKES TOO".
April 6, 2011, 6 am
Not Goish from Prospect Heights says:
Yes, going the opposite direction on a one-way street isn't limited to food delivery cyclists; it's something that many people do, even the Spandex Ballet folks.
April 6, 2011, 7:18 am
jj from brooklyn says:
How about a crackdown against restaurants that allow their (presumably illegal) workers to race through the streets — against traffic — at night DRESSED IN DARK CLOTHING on bikes without lights OR reflectors (and, of course, without helmets). Who pays THEIR medical bills when they're injured (and who pays any pedestrian they injure)?
April 6, 2011, 7:41 am
Scottilla from Midwood says:
The city needs a certain amount of money to run. It has to come from somewhere. If we don't want to pay taxes, then it has to come from somewhere. Fines for example. This is not a matter of what they are spending the money on, this is a matter of it coming in at all. Sales tax too high? The money has to come from somewhere else. Income tax too high? The monety has to come from somewhere else. Ifyou don't like the priorities, then elect people to the city council that share your vision. The money to run the city has to come from somewhere.
April 6, 2011, 8:19 am
bigW from BK says:
The most dangerous bikers in the city are the food delivery guys. The police purposely ignore them and for a very clear reason. If you or I get pulled over we show ID and get a ticket. If an illegal alien gets pulled over, he can't speak english very well and has no proper ID the police MUST by protocol detain that person. That means the cop is now off the street dealing with paperwork and NOT collecting more tickets and money from you and I. It has NOTHING to do with safety.
April 6, 2011, 8:51 am
james from pps says:
Scotilla -- that's well and good. But the deployment of police resources should also target the biggest safety concerns, not just low hanging fruit!

I put wrong-way and sidewalk cyclists in this category.

But very few of the other "infractions" by cyclists. These are just easy targets. Meanwhile cars (two-ton blocks of steel with wheels) run red lights, don't yield to pedestrians, drive 20 or 30 mph over the speed limit, don't stop at stop lights, block roads and bike lanes, etc. etc. etc. There are almost NO tickets!

Where is the "crack down" for cars?!
April 6, 2011, 8:52 am
Hopper from Los S-S says:
Be Warned: They're using unmarked cars. They also will radio ahead to "Auxiliary Police" units (basically thugs who are trying to make the force) who will run you down and hold you until the Officer arrives. It's happened to me.
April 6, 2011, 8:55 am
LOLcat from Park Slope says:
@Scotilla,

How about we raise taxes on the rich? (hedge funders only pay 15%!!) If you think 600 tickets is saving any jobs you are sorely mistaken.

As for some anecdotal evidence of the ridiculous of this "crackdown"... a friend of mine hopped on his bike on the sidewalk and rode it off the curb, into the street. He was probably riding on the sidewalk for less than 15 seconds and about 10-20 feet. The police pulled him over (in the street) and gave him a ticket for riding on the sidewalk. While he was receiving this ticket I watched a car make a left turn, blatantly through a red light, on a two way street. When I yelled to the cops, THAT GUY JUST WENT THROUGH A RED LIGHT, they threatened to give me and my pedestrians friends tickets. This crackdown is not about safety, it's about persecuting cyclists.
April 6, 2011, 8:56 am
Hopper from Los S-S says:
I also agree, wrong way and sidewalk are no-fly zones.
But only if it's FLAGRANT. 10 feet on the sidewalk while going into the roadway? Gimme a break.
April 6, 2011, 8:57 am
Steve from PPW says:
WWTBD?

(What would Tal Barzilai do?)
April 6, 2011, 9:03 am
Dave from Park Slope says:
Opponents of the Prospect Park West bike path know it hasn't made the boulevard less safe. It's just that they need to be able to say something other than "we're NIMBYs and we don't like change."

Ticket the dangerous behavior, like people who buzz by pedestrians in crosswalks agains the light. But don't forget to ticket all the dangerous driving, too.
April 6, 2011, 9:13 am
Peter from Park Slope says:
In the last two weeks there have been at least 4 accidents involving reckless drivers in Park Slope / Carroll Gardens / Cobble Hill that were severe enough to make the papers, all involving pedestrians either sent to the hospital, or worse, to the morgue.

When was the last time a pedestrian was hit by a bicyclist and it was serious enough to make the paper?

Seriously, NYPD, this is bull. Get off your butts and start enforcing traffic rules on the lunatics doing 40mph through residential neighborhoods. Put a radar gun on the corner of Union & 7th ave, and the tickets will write themselves.
April 6, 2011, 9:17 am
John from Greenpoint says:
Ditto to Peter. I would be fine with enforcement of traffic laws against cyclists if I got the sense that the NYPD ever enforced any traffic laws against motorists. Or pedestrians for that matter. Jaywalking is supposed to warrant a ticket.
April 6, 2011, 9:23 am
LOLcat from Park Slope says:
Give me a ticket book and I could probably write at least 1,000 dollars worth of tickets every day on my way to and from work!

Sometimes I think traffic enforcement agent is my true calling in life...

Also, ticket cyclists going the wrong with and ones without lights. They are a legitimate danger to other road users, and themselves.
April 6, 2011, 9:32 am
Other Michael from Park Sllpe says:
@ Steve from PPW

I love you.

I don't know you but I love you.
April 6, 2011, 9:46 am
Joey from Clinton Hills says:
no NYPD cop should be able to write a ticket where the fine is higher than his (or her) I.Q.
April 6, 2011, 9:51 am
jj from brooklyn says:
i know a girl who was badly injured by a teen or young adult bicyclist (not a little kid) on a sidewalk in windsor terrace. it's not a joke.

that said, there should be enforcement priorities: wrong-way and sidewalk driving, and driving at night without illumination — those are serious. going slowing thru a red light (as do pedestrians in NYC), that's exercising common sense and is usually quite safe.
April 6, 2011, 10:05 am
Ben from Greenpoint says:
bikers are not following rules at all, ignoring red flashers of yellow school buses etc.putting small children in danger!! give respect you get respect.. remember its a two way street....
April 6, 2011, 10:15 am
John from Bay Ridge says:
The title of this article should read: The city is finally doing its job.
I don't get why cyclist want to be exempt from following the law. Do your part, obey the laws, and you won't have to worry about a ticket.
April 6, 2011, 10:54 am
Peter from Park Slope says:
I would *love* to see the reaction of drivers in NYC if the NYPD actually cracked down on illegal & reckless driving.

Not to mention cracking down on all the illegally registered out-of-state cars. 30% of the cars in my neighborhood are sporting plates from NJ, PA, NC, FL, and so on. People, I see your cars *every* day, and for years. You're breaking the law, and committing insurance fraud to boot.
April 6, 2011, 11:22 am
Ben from Park Slope says:
Meanwhile, while standing at the corner of Flatbush and 7th Aves. while waiting for the Walk sign to appear last week, I saw three drivers talking on their hand-held cell phones, a few cars speeding, one guy change lanes without signaling and one car blow through the red light. Where's the enforcement there?
April 6, 2011, 11:24 am
wkgreen from Park Slope says:
There always needs to be an element of common sense and courtesy to these things. I mean if a bike is on the sidewalk and no one sees it is it really there? I don't typically salmon and often go out my way to avoid it, but then if traffic allows I'll ride up the block on my one way street to get home 3 houses from the corner. These things would be absurd to do in a car, but on a bike why should anyone care?

Still, cyclists get a bad rap for not following rules that could easily be codified for bicycles. A bike that comes to a full stop at a red light and then moves slowly through an empty intersection is a danger to no one. I mean a right on red??? Come on! And it is often easier and safer to start a left turn early moving quickly as far to the curb in the oncoming lane as possible before coming to the turn rather than play a game of chicken with much larger vehicles in the intersection. Why should I sacrifice my safety and convenience to play by rules that were not written with me in mind?
April 6, 2011, 11:27 am
Mike says:
I see dangerous drivers doing potentially fatal things all day long -- running lights, making u-turns, failing to yield on turns -- and the NYPD doesn't give a crap. And now they're writing hundreds of tickets to cyclists? Cmon. Let's have some sense of where the actual danger is, and where the enforcement should be concentrated.
April 6, 2011, 11:55 am
Steve from PPW says:
Exactly. It's perfectly fine to say that cyclists should obey the law but that the NYPD ought to apportion its resources according to the level of the threat.

Where's the crackdown on cars?
April 6, 2011, 12:06 pm
Dave from Clinton Hill says:
It's backwards assed BS and everyone knows it, target the drivers talking on cell phones, running red lights, speeding on residential streets, I see it everyday were I live and it presents a much bigger danger to people than someone riding their bike off the sidewalk.
April 6, 2011, 12:09 pm
Wishnia from Park Slope says:
As a taxpayer, I'm delighted to see this action by the NYPD. It demonstrates that our police force is over-staffed and a great place to look for upcoming and needed budget cuts.
April 6, 2011, 12:29 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
This is fine with me. When bicycles start obeying the law as much as cars do then there will be nothing for them to worry about and no tickets given. I don't have a problem with this city getting money from people who don't pay taxes. If you want to ride a bike you should pay taxes like pedestrians and drivers do.
April 6, 2011, 12:46 pm
SJ from Sunset Park says:
Tal - What taxes do drivers and pedestrians pay that bicyclists supposedly don't pay?
April 6, 2011, 12:59 pm
@eveostay from prospect heights says:
Natalie, why do you say, "On the Prospect Park West bike lane, for example, opponents complain that it has made the boulevard less safe for pedestrians," without also mentioning that the DOT's study shows that PPW is safer since the redesign, and that bike lanes, in general, make streets safer for all users: pedestrians and drivers, as well as cyclists?
April 6, 2011, 1:18 pm
Mike says:
SJ, little known fact: anyone who owns and rides a bike is completely exempt from NYC income tax. You just check a box on your tax return, and poof -- no tax liability. It's great!
April 6, 2011, 1:18 pm
SJ from Sunset Park says:
Mike - wow! I never knew that. Too bad I'm also a pedestrian, so I'm still saddled with all of those costly "pedestrian taxes".
April 6, 2011, 1:26 pm
Peter from Park Slope says:
"When bicycles start obeying the law as much as cars do then there will be nothing for them to worry about and no tickets given."

Funny. Seems like bicyclists *are* obeying the law as much as drivers are.

How many speeding tickets has the 78th precinct written this year?
April 6, 2011, 1:28 pm
Der from Slope says:
I'll second what the other posters have said about dangerous conditions from motorists around 7th / 8th ave and Flatbush. I have seen a number of accidents & near-misses in the last few months, and I constantly see drivers on cell phones, speeding, blowing through lights, etc., and there is absolutely no action from the 78th or 77th Precincts. I guess going after bike riders is easier than actually making a rolling stop of a car.
April 6, 2011, 1:47 pm
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
Only 50% of funding for roads comes from gasoline, license and title taxes and the like.

The rest comes from other taxes and federal funds.

So, actually, car drivers are subsidized by the 54% of New Yorkers who don't own a car.
April 6, 2011, 2:04 pm
@eveostay from brooklyn says:
It's also likely, since bikes don't wear down the roads like cars do, that cyclists are the only transportation users that pay more in federal, state, city and property taxes then they receive back in infrastructure or services.
April 6, 2011, 2:15 pm
John from Bensonhurst says:
2010 New York City
Fines—Parking Violations Bureau . . $604,050,097
Parking Meter Revenues . . . . . . . . . .$146,784,983
April 6, 2011, 2:29 pm
Joey Bots from Bottsville says:
Why was I blessed with this musical talent!?!?
April 6, 2011, 3:15 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Okay, I did not write that comment at 1:46 because I was at work eating lunch. You can prove it if you need to. Still I think that cyclists need to stop riding if they want to get respect from drivers, who have the most rights to roads, parking spaces, and sidewalks. I would like the terrorists at Streetsblog and Transportations Alternatives to close their office on me and stop impersonating me. Or, if it's Mike, cut it out. You cyclers are all the same and have no regard for the law, so you deserve to never ride bikes in this city or anywhere else.
April 6, 2011, 3:20 pm
Tally Barzilay from Not Brooklyn says:
Hey, I just Bill Clinton slurping a bowl of soup and it reminded me that I'm an idiot and instead of bugging BP readers, I should drive over to some low ranked NJ College and try to abduct a co-ed.
April 6, 2011, 3:45 pm
adam from bed-stuy says:
does this mean they will begin ticketing other vehicles and people who use the bike lane without a bike? double parking in bike lanes? using bike lanes as passing/turning lanes? holding protests in bike lanes?
April 6, 2011, 3:49 pm
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
@BGGB from Bed-Stuy

Where did you get those numbers?
April 6, 2011, 4:20 pm
Sara from Park Slope says:
How about ticketing car drivers for riding too close to bicyclists, cutting them off, opening their doors on them? Or how about ticketing car drivers for running red lights, driving too fast, talking on cellphones.... I'm a bicyclist, a walker, and a driver and all my near misses are because of drivers who don't seem to follow any rules.
April 6, 2011, 4:39 pm
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
Attention all self absorbed, narcissitic bicyclists who thought that traffic regulations don't pertain to them:

life begins to suck when you are held to the same standards as other vehicle operators, doesn't it? You ignore the fact that a bicycle is a vehicle. you have no special entitlements to ignore whatever traffic laws you think might be unfair.

“I ride my bike everyday; I made a judgment call — and I don’t think I was taking an extraordinary risk,” she said, claiming that the light was yellow. “If they’re going to enforce laws they never did before, they should give us a warning”, says dumb*ss Erin Quirk. Really? A judgement call? No such thing as a judgement call in regards it obeying the law. Ignorance of the law isn't a valid excuse, either. It's incumbent upon you to take the responsibility to learn what laws apply to anyone operating a vehicle. A motorist making the same ridiculous comment to a cop after running a red light would have to wait an additional ten minutes for his ticket because that's how long the cop would need to compose himself to write the ticket after laughing at that stupid comment.
What fantasy world does she, or anyone else who supposedly didn't know the laws have always applied to cyclists, live in? Get real and take your heads out of your fifth point of contact. Stop with the BS phony naivete. "If they’re going to enforce laws they never did before, they should give us a warning”. It's part of being a responsible adult to possess basic common sense. The cops don't need to warn you if they're going to write a ticket for doing something that is clearly wrong, like running red lights, riding against the flow of traffic, riding on sidewalks, etc. Even as a kid, I knew I wasn't supposed to do any of the aforementioned things when riding my bike on city streets. Just like a motorist who thinks he's getting over by blowing a red light and does get pulled over, you need to accept responsibility for your actions the you're caught. It's part of being an responsible person.

wkgreen from Park Slope says:

"I mean if a bike is on the sidewalk and no one sees it is it really there?"

I mean if there was only you and another person on a deserted street and that other person punched you in the face, did that really happen? Stop equivocating and using juvenile logic to justify doing something wrong. It's wrong whether or not someone sees you breaking the law.

"Still, cyclists get a bad rap for not following rules that could easily be codified for bicycles. A bike that comes to a full stop at a red light and then moves slowly through an empty intersection is a danger to no one. I mean a right on red??? Come on! And it is often easier and safer to start a left turn early moving quickly as far to the curb in the oncoming lane as possible before coming to the turn rather than play a game of chicken with much larger vehicles in the intersection. Why should I sacrifice my safety and convenience to play by rules that were not written with me in mind?"

Let me break it down so that even you could understand. Bicyclists get a bad rap because more than a few possess and exhibit the same entitled attitude you do.

Firstly, traffic laws concerning bicycles have been on the books ever since two wheelers were invented and became a means of transportation in this burg. These same regulations covered horse drawn conveyances and, as they became available in large numbers at the turn of the last century, automobiles.

Secondly, you're showing your self absorbed "it's all about me" attitude by the latter part of your comment. It doesn't matter if the intersection is empty. The same rules apply to autos, bikes, scooters or any other conveyance. That being, you stop on red until it changes to green. Easier and convenient don't equate to safer. The same reasons that autos aren't allowed to creep into an intersection on a red light once again apply to you and other bicyclists. Just like a motorist positioned in an intersection waiting to make a left turn, you also need to wait until traffic conditions safely allow you to do so. Oncoming vehicles will allow you to complete your turn out of courtesy, which most bicyclists lack by barreling through intersections and possibly causing accidents when motorists have to slam on their brakes in order to avoid turning your sorry *sses into red skid marks on the street. Your inconsiderate and, only God knows why, elitist attitude typifies the selfish behavior of green weenies on two wheels. Riding a bike doesn't make you special and exclude you from obeying the rules of the road like everyone else is required. I can't wait for the next administration to come into office and undo all of Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan's stupidity.
April 6, 2011, 5:58 pm
D from Park Slope says:
"The crackdown comes at an awkward time for the Bloomberg Administration, which has spent much of the past two years encouraging cycling by painting hundreds of miles of new bike lanes."

Natalie, DOT paints about 50 miles of bike lanes per year, and has been doing that since 2007. So, in the last two years, the Bloomberg administration would have painted only about one hundred miles of new bike lanes. To say hundreds is a real stretch.
April 6, 2011, 7:35 pm
Rob from PH says:
"By law, bicycles are treated like cars"

Except they aren't. There is little or no enforcement of traffic laws for cars in this city.

"The crackdown was needed because of a rise in bicycle accidents " say the cops. But they won't provide evidence of a rise in bike accidents.

I don't own a bike OR a car, and I think this whole situation stinks of the NYPD taking advantage of the increase in bike ridership as a way to make quotas and raise revenue for a cash-strapped city. When they started ticketing bike riders for speeding in the park who weren't even exceeding the legal speed limit, the phrase that came to mind is "shake down".
April 6, 2011, 7:39 pm
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
@ Joe Z.

" I can't wait for the next administration to come into office and undo all of Bloomberg and Sadik-Khan's stupidity."

So instead of getting bikers to follow that law, you would give them no choice but to break it.
April 6, 2011, 7:40 pm
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
"So instead of getting bikers to follow that law, you would give them no choice but to break it."

You win the prize for the most ludicrous,intellectually dishonest and stupid statement of the day. They have a choice whether, or not, to obey the law. If they choose not to, then, they should accept the consequences of that choice. Seek responsibilty and take responsibility for your actions. A concept so simple that even bicyclists could grasp it.

So, bicyclists need a green lane to obey traffic laws? Evidently, these people of a certain age are dumber than horse droppings. It's only in the last 10-15 years that the lack in civility and decreased intelligence by bicyclists that requires the painting of what amounts to idiot guides. You seem to be less intelligent than the bikers themselves to suggest that they are incapable of comprehending and following rules and laws of the road. Why were people able to enjoy bike riding for generations without problems? the reason is that bicyclists, among other segments of society as a whole, feel that laws which seem, to them, unfair should be ignored. It's not the onus of motorists to be wary of bicyclists. Motor vehicles have the primary right to use the roadways and streets. Bicyclists need to heed to motor vehicles, not the other way around. Bicyclists need to stop creating dangerous and unsafe conditions by not weaving between moving cars, trucks and buses. But, of course, people like you think that bicyclists are too damned special to be bothered with such matters.
April 6, 2011, 8:20 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Once again someone uses my name to make fun of me, and I am holding some of bike zealots accountable for it, plus I wasn't even at my computer earlier today. Nevertheless, I do support a citywide crackdown on this. Why should cyclists be given special treatement when others can't. There are no new rules to place on cyclists, they already exist, and just need to be enforced more. Drivers are already being cracked down on, and that is with both parking and moving violations. Why is it so hard to follow the rules for you cyclists? I am so tired of hearing your kind act like victims to the rules yet tell everyone else to follow them at the same time. I think that licensing and registration will help the crackdown a lot, so that they can be tracked making them a lot easier to find.
April 6, 2011, 8:22 pm
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
There's nothing worse than getting clotheslined while zooming along on the sidewalk with the exception of having a broomhandle jammed through your spokes while doing the same.
April 6, 2011, 8:34 pm
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
"Bicyclists need to heed to motor vehicles, not the other way around"

I do, my bike has virtually no mass compared to a 3 or 4 ton motor vehicle.

You will never see me (or people like me) riding on the sidewalk or weaving through traffic. So please don't generalize about me, or people like me. I follow the rules because they make if safer for me.

"Motor vehicles have the primary right to use the roadways and streets." No, bike are subject to the same laws and entitled to the same space on the road. But, we can't use them.
April 7, 2011, 5:41 am
Steve from PPW says:
Tal,

Please come to the Sunday family bike ride from 10:30 to 2 on April 10. I think it would be a great chance for you to meet people. Talking face to face is always better than blog comments.

Will you come?
April 7, 2011, 9:12 am
ken from Bushwick says:
bikers not pay taxes,dot taxes, etc. totally riding in the city for free!! they should be paying taxes like any other vehicle otherwise remove the bike lanes.....
April 7, 2011, 10:30 am
tyler from pps says:
KEN -- That is WRONG WRONG WRONG about taxes.

Only about half of the funding for roads comes from gas taxes, licensing fees and so on (it might even be less than half now).

The rest comes from federal, state and city coffers -- meaning income taxes, corporate taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc. etc. etc. We ALL pay these taxes.

Furthermore -- Bikes do not cause even close to the amount of wear and tear on the roads. That means the roads that we ALL pay for do not have to be replaced as much.

Should we take away all of the sidewalks too? Pedestrians don't pay licensing fees -- but the transportation budget pays for pedestrian infrastructure too.
April 7, 2011, 10:45 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
at Other Michael

Here are some links.

I'm still trying to find the one that broke down how NYC roads are paid for. But close to half of the money comes from the federal govt, and other amounts come from property and sales taxes (see 2nd link below)
April 7, 2011, 11:07 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/03/tragedies_commons
April 7, 2011, 11:07 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:

http://tinyurl.com/6eygdzw
April 7, 2011, 11:09 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
sorry, 1 more:

http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/331734_firstperson17.html
April 7, 2011, 11:33 am
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
Thanks BGGB, that is what I thought.
April 7, 2011, 1:21 pm
Steve from PPW says:
Also, many bicyclists are also car owners, which means they are paying income taxes and all of the fees and taxes associated with car ownership.

Plenty of people in NYC own a car but do not use it every day for commuting.
April 7, 2011, 5:22 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Joe Z, I feel bad for how they are treating you, and they do the same on me. Trying to get them to understand that it's important to follow the rules is sort of like getting the Muslim Brotherhood to accept Israel as an existing nation, and we know how difficult that is. All I have heard from these bike zealouts are excuses rather than reasons to claim that the rules shouldn't apply to them. If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime. In reality, they can't arrest you for a traffic violation, but they can still hand you fines as a consequence for breaking the laws. Another thing that I don't understand is why some many of those bike zealouts especially on Streetsblog believe that the automobile or oil lobbyists had something to do with this when there was never any found proof of such act. This was done after many people made complaints about this, and it turns out that this isn't the first time seeing that it goes all the way back to the Koch administration, and he did originally give cyclists the benefit of the doubt, and similar thing was done recently with Stringer, who is the borough president of Manhattan. Just because you don't use fossil fuels, doesn't give you the right to flout the laws.
April 7, 2011, 7:36 pm
Jenny from The Village says:
The cops should start ticketing pedestrians, too then. When I ride my bike, pedestrians NEVER look to see if there is a bike coming before stepping into the street from between parked vehicles (which is jay-walking and a ticketable offense). Also, I often have to weave around peds walking IN the bike lane... how safe is that for either of us? And the last thing that pedestrians should get ticketed for, is standing in the bike lane at the corner as if it were part of the sidewalk. Fill your quota on pedestrians, guys. There are a LOT more of them than bikers.... and they need to protect themselves since they are the most vulnerable on the street
April 7, 2011, 11:04 pm
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
Thanks for your support, Tal.

One thing that is obvious by its ommission is that none of the bike zealots can satisfactorily and logically explain why they need to have a seperate, marked lane in order to ride a bike in the street. What is the reason that prohibits them from riding a bike in a safe and responsible manner alongside motor vehicles? It was something that people did for decades; and, there were no special lanes which were bike-specific. These people think that the addition of these lanes excuses and excludes them from obeying vehicular traffic regulations. Last year, I was on my way home from picking up my son from school. We stood at the corner until we had the light. No sooner did I step off the curb to start crossing the street, a biker came from around the corner, riding in the wrong direction on the bike lane, and plowed into me and my son, knocking all three of us down. This clown had the nerve to start cursing and berating me for getting in his way. After checking my son for injuries, I walked to where his bike was lying and proceeded to stomp on the spokes. After I was finished, i picked the bike up and heaved it across the street. I was polite enough to wish him a good day, though. So, in a nutshell, the rules apply to all. You don't get a pass just because its a bike.
April 7, 2011, 11:09 pm
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
Joe Z,

We need a separate, marked lane so we wont have to get in you way when you drive. So we wont have to swerve in front of your car when your car zealots friends decides he has to double park.
April 8, 2011, 5:50 am
erin from Bedford-Stuyvesant says:
Unfortunately, this article does not accurately represent my point of view, and so I'd like to emphasize that I am in favor of enforcement of traffic laws for all users of bike lanes, sidewalks and streets. I simply stated that education and incentives to ride should be part of any traffic law enforcement campaign, which hasn't been the case. Here is the original letter:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/04/03/2011-04-03_voice_people.html
While I'm disappointed with the story, the discussion that has come from it in the comments here are (for the most part) the kind of dialogue that needs to happen so that cyclists, pedestrians and drivers can share the road and respect one another.
April 8, 2011, 8:33 am
erin from Bedford-Stuyvesant says:
Another point missing here is to question the logic of ticketing cyclists as if they were motor vehicles. If fines are commensurate with the risk brought to the public by the violation, cars and bikes should be fined differently.
April 8, 2011, 8:39 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
@ Joe Z

Statistics show that when bike lanes are installed, safety goes up for everyone using the street, cars and pedestrians alike.

Even if lanes didn't help bike and car traffic move more smoothly (which it does), the public safety statistics alone justify bike lanes.

There are 6,000 miles of road in NYC. 500 miles of bike lane, most of which doesn't involve removing a lane of traffic or parking spaces.

There's no rational argument against well-planned bike lanes that follow proper land use procedures.
April 8, 2011, 10:35 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Sorry erin, but your letter on the Daily News just wasn't convincing. You went on a red light, which is illegal in itself. Keep in mind that according to NYC traffic laws, no turns are allowed on red even if they happen to be a right turn, which is usually allowed everywhere else after making a complete stop. If you are going to show that it's important to follow the rules, then start with yourself first before you talk about others. To answer Other Michael, you already got your bike lanes, not start following the rules just as you promised. Having special lanes is not a get of jail free card here. Once again, you bike zealouts present excuses rather than reasons to claim that the rules shouldn't apply to you.
April 9, 2011, 9:46 pm
Other Michael from Park Slope says:
Tal

A special bike lane is not a "get out of jail free" card it is a "stay out of the hospital" card.
April 11, 2011, 5:21 am
catherine from coney says:
oh boohoo people. you want the same rights as us drivers/you should have to pay insurance.hey you can hit a person and hurt them too. also if you dont follow the rules of the road like us you should get ticketed no matter who you are or where your from. i dont understand special bike lanes when i was a kid they didnt have them we rode as close to the curb as we could with flow of traffic what makes you guys so special that you feel you dont have to follow rules of road and face the same concequences huh and you guys should be registered and plates like we do
April 11, 2011, 8:42 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
Hi Catherine

Bike lanes reduces accidents, death and injury for everyone, from pedestrians to drivers. So they exist to improve public safety for EVERYONE. I assume you support that, yes?

Also, between 1996 and 2005, 11 people were killed by bicyclists, or about 1.1 per year.

All bicyclists are asking is that traffic laws be proportional to public safety.

Holding bikes and cars to the same standard is like holding guns and sling shots to the same standard.
April 11, 2011, 8:49 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
Tal

Here's a reasonable argument you are so desperately seeking:

Road laws should be proportional to public risk and safety.
April 11, 2011, 8:51 am
Sid from Ft. Greene says:
Bicyclists should be required to carry a license, just like drivers of motor vehicles. They have a sense of entitlement, and ignore basic safety rules that are in place to protect them and the general public. There should be bicycle police put in place to enforce code, give summonses and revoke bicycle licenses if necessary.
April 11, 2011, 10:39 am
Sid No. 2 from Ft. Greene says:
Pedestrians should be required to carry a license, just like drivers of motor vehicles. They have a sense of entitlement, and ignore basic safety rules that are in place to protect them and the general public. There should be pedestrian police put in place to enforce code, give summonses and revoke pedestrian licenses if necessary.
April 11, 2011, 12:46 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Some bike lanes were placed in an agreement that you guys would start following the laws, but you still don't. Instead of keeping your promises, you act if they don't apply to you. This sort of reminds me of the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts where if Israel gives the Palestinians more land, the attacks will stop and everyone will live in peace. Instead, one kept their end of the bargain, while the other side didn't and is still saying give us more and we won't kill you. By what I said, the cyclists are the Palestinians, and everyone else is Israel. I have never seen bike lanes as magic bullets either be it reducing accidents or making a neighborhood better, and those are nothing but lies. Just reading someone of those who have been crying foul on places such as Streetsblog or Gothamist really shows how some are just trying to get their 15 minutes of fame, or should I say shame. Acting like a victim doesn't help either. You broke the law, now pay your debt to society like everyone else. For the record, I do call out many reckless drivers that flout the law as well as pedestrians, so I am not selective to just cyclists.
April 11, 2011, 12:54 pm
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
"I have never seen bike lanes as magic bullets either be it reducing accidents"

Statistics and studies show otherwise.

You are just making up your own reasoning.
April 11, 2011, 1:09 pm
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
Sid are we going to enforce bike laws as infrequently as we enforce automobile laws?

If so, then I fully support your plan.
April 11, 2011, 1:09 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
BGGB, we drivers don't just get moving violations, we also get parking violations as well. Some of them inlcude parking in no parking/standing zones or when parking isn't allowed at the time, being within 15 feet or next to a fire hydrant, blocking driveways or part of them, having time expired at metered parking, and so many more than what I just mentioned. Sometimes, we can get fined just for not doing the inspection when it was needed or even for having a broken tailight, and that is when being parked. We get a lot more fines than you cyclists get, so quit complaining. BTW, I have never seen or heard any cyclists geting parking violations either, so just be glad that you only get moving violations, because we get a lot more, but you don't hear us whinning about it.
April 11, 2011, 2:39 pm
art525 from park slope says:
Through this whole debate/ argument I have been arguing that the problem is that bikers have no regard for pedestrians and no regard for the rules of the road. This article and the responses to it prove my argument. The bikers mentioned in the article and the ones who have posted here have such an arrogance, such a sense of self importance and such a sense of entitlement. Erin Quirk is mad that she gets ticketed for breaking the law. Jeez that is so unfair isn't it? Why shouldn't she get to decide whether or not she follows the law? Shouldn't she be able to make judgement calls? Boy if everyone had that attitude about everything we would have complete anarchy. But Hey it's all about you isn't it? And then there is this absolutely adolescent attitude that "cars are breaking the rules all the time". Didn't you mother tell you when you were little that just because Joey was doing it didn't make it right and doesn't mean that you can do it? And I think that most drivers would argue with you about that. If you run red lights you are going to get tickets. Hey they even put up cameras so there doesn't have to be a cop there. I wouldn't argue that cars should get away with breaking the law and bikers shouldn't either. This article and the arguments here are about the stupidest ones I have seen in this whole debate.
April 11, 2011, 4:20 pm
Mike says:
"Some bike lanes were placed in an agreement that you guys would start following the laws, but you still don't."

Pure fantasy on Tal's part. Who would have possibly made such an "agreement"?

And most bikers do follow the laws, except sometimes the ones that make absolutely no sense under the circumstances. Just like pedestrians.
April 12, 2011, 10:32 am
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
Tal-

That was a complete non sequitur.

As for the various points you keep jumping around:

1. Bike lanes make streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians and cars. Data and studies show this.

2. Bikers are simply pointing out that laws and enforcement should be according to threat to public safety. Bikers rarely kill people, and carry much less of a threat of harm than cars. Tickets and punishment should reflect this.

We don't punish guns and slingshots equally, now do we? Bikes kill 1.1 people per year. Cars kill 150 pedestrians per year.

3. People don't whine about parking tickets? Yeah right. And could you imagine if they actually started ticketing for double parking or driving in the bike lane or rolling through stop signs? New Yorkers would be marching in the streets.

art525-

The main point bikers are trying to make is #2. If you want to discuss this topic, don't make up straw men.
April 12, 2011, 10:52 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
BGGB, here is where I find your statements to be wrong.

1. That is nothing but a myth. Are you trying to tell me that bike lanes instantly make streets safer just like that? I don't know what you are on, but I don't want it. Bike lanes do not magically make neighborhoods and streets safer, people who live there do.

2. I will not agrue with you on some rules making no sense, but until they are repealed, they are the law, and they must be followed whether you like them or not. Don't give me that excuse that because bicycles hardly kill people, so they are not a problem. Just because it's small doesn't mean that they aren't a threat either, and it has been proven that bicycles can injure or kill people such as Stuart Gruskind, who was killed by a cyclist. Stats only give effects and not causes. On a side note, the anti-Israel crowd makes this claim a lot to claim that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and say that the IDF shows more proof just for killing more than they do.
April 12, 2011, 7 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
3. There are people who whine about parking tickets, but I am not one of them. If one can take pictures of the area and submit in an appeal for proof that their space was legal, the ticket will get rejected, otherwise they will have to pay it. However, that only works for parking violations, and not moving violations, which is a different story here. Running red lights and stop signs are illegal be it a motor vehicle or a bicycle, and there is no way around that. BTW, I don't support double parking either as well as those parking next to fire hydrants. I used those to claim that my kind gets a lot more in fines than your's does, and they are much more in costs as well.
April 12, 2011, 7:01 pm
catherine from coney says:
i dont know what you guys see but try 2 walk down the sidewalk when yoy have a people in their 20s and up tearing down the sidewalk aiming for you. i thought you guys were suppose 2 stay in the street you guys want it all but you dont follow the rules if i as a car driver didnt follow the rules would get tickets why shouldnt you guys what makes you all so special. im tired of all you yahoos boohooing go live in t he country where theres not much traffic you can have the road to yourselves.funny i never had a bike lane to ride in when i use 2 ride a bike and i never hurt anyone never hurt myself and i followed the rules of the road you guys want it all and dont want 2 give anything 2 get it. i hope the cops nail you guys.put up or shut up bikers you want 2 use the roads face the same rules us drivers do
April 12, 2011, 7:15 pm
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
art525 from park slope has presented the whole debate in a concise, coherent and inelligently thought out context which seems to be beyond the comprehension level of whiny bicycle proponents who, in their juvenile manner, refuse to understand that it doesn't matter if one agrees, or not, with a particular law or regulation. It's not your choice whether to obey or not. You MUST because it is the law.

As an aside, you POS are dead against registration and licensing of bicycles because doing so would require obtaining insurance. You clowns get a pass when you ride at excessive speeds on bridges, ride the wrong way (there is no two way traffic on bike lanes located on one-way streets. You are required by law to ride with the designated direction of traffic on any street or roadway; so, don't bring up that "judgement call" crap) in your silly bike lanes or run through stop signs and red lights and collide with and injure a pedestrian because there is no way for that person to receive compensation for being injured. The same goes when you idiots damage or tear off side mirrors on cars, scrape and damage the paint or dent the bodywork because the bikes you chain to posts or parking meters fall over and hit the cars parked at the curb. You all talk a good game until you are actually held accountable for your actions like other registered, licensed and insured users of streets and roadways are.
April 12, 2011, 7:25 pm
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
"erin from Bedford-Stuyvesant says:
Another point missing here is to question the logic of ticketing cyclists as if they were motor vehicles. If fines are commensurate with the risk brought to the public by the violation, cars and bikes should be fined differently."

So, if you happen to be riding your bike, come to an intersection with a red light and, making a "judgement call" to blow through the light, make an illegal turn, hitting me as I cross the street because I have the green light to proceed, the impact of which breaks an arm or a leg, that isn't the same as a motorist ignoring the law? What legal recourse do I have to receive compensation due me because of your disregard for the law and lack of insurance? Do you think "OMG! I'm sooo sorry; but, it's actually your fault. You should have paid attention for bicyclists.", is going to cut it. The only reason for your feigned outrage and disappointment with the Daily News story is that it was an accurate, on the money portrayal of an arrogant, self-absorbed, self-important, elitist and pretentious indiviual possessing an imaginary sense of entitlement. Grow up, and/or, move back to wherever you originally came from. This isn't Portland, Wisconsin or Amsterdam.

My initial assessment was correct. You are an arrogant, self-absorbed, self-important, elitist and pretentious dumb*ss. Now, why don't you and your pedalphile friends go chain up some ghost bikes to lamposts? That's the white snob's equivalent to ghetto shrines set up for a deceased drug dealers or gang bangers, right? Gotta love pointless, silly symbolic gestures. So tribal. So L7.
April 12, 2011, 11:51 pm
BGGB from Bed-Stuy says:
Tal,

http://www.planetizen.com/node/45759

http://blog.tstc.org/2010/08/18/groundbreaking-nycdot-pedestrian-study-recommends-testing-20-mph-limit-for-neighborhoods/

Not a myth.

FACT.

___________________________

Oh Joe Z., I love how you equate the danger, damage and recklessness presented by bikes and cars.

That's a farce. Cars kill, maim, and damage exponentially more than bicyclists.

Bicyclists have 500 miles of bike lanes, cars have 6,000 miles, and these lanes make you so angry.

Who is the arrogant entitled one here?

___________________________

Hi Catherine,

You keep repeating the same misguided point.

All bicyclists are asking is that traffic laws be proportional to public safety.

Holding bikes and cars to the same standard is like holding guns and sling shots to the same standard.

Get it?
April 13, 2011, 8:42 am
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
BGGB,

Why don't you enlighten us as to what recourse a person injured by a bicyclist has? Bicyclists carry no insurance coverage for liability, collision or for anything else. If a pedestrian or biker is injured in a motor vehicle-related accident, the operator of that vehicle has insurance coverage for such an eventuality. If the clown who ran over me and my son had actually caused any serious injuries to either of us, how would he have been held accountable, other than being ticketed/arrested, for his actions? You can't give us an answer because you feel that bike-related accidents aren't of the same magnitude when compared to autos. Remember that if you ever get clothelined when riding your bike on the sidewalk.
April 13, 2011, 9:16 am
BGGB from B-S says:
Given the ratio of deaths caused by each (150:1), and the comparison of a 3000 lb car traveling roughly 30 mph or more, vs a 40 lb bike traveling - maximum- 25 mph, do you think the state should have a law requiring insurance?

Do you think the NYPD is equipped to enforce it?

Given the risk to public health, do you think this is a good use of resources?

How about this: in NY "unlicensed drivers are four times as likely to be involved in traffic crashes as properly licensed drivers, but 75 percent of motorists with suspended licenses continue to drive."

So the police can't even handle car drivers, and you think it's practical to enforce this against bikes? Knock yourself out.

If licenses and requisite insurance requirements are what it would take to pacify rabid bike-haters like yourself, fine. Go for it.
April 13, 2011, 9:39 am
Joe Z. from Greenpoint says:
I don't need to go for it since I already have it, just in case one of you clowns decides to make a "judgement call" and end up as roadkill because you don't think traffic laws also apply to you.

It's not just a 40lb. bike. It's the weight of both the bike and rider combined with the speed at which he's moving. You attempt to portray yourself as an intelligent individual; figure out what is involved in a bike-pedestrian collision:

p=mv

The ratio of accidents involving bikes and pedestrians is immaterial. They still occur and the injured pedestrian has no recourse for injury related compensation which is possible if the accident involved a motor vehicle. I'm still waiting for your response regarding this point.

"So the police can't even handle car drivers, and you think it's practical to enforce this against bikes? Knock yourself out."

Remember that if and when you end up in an accident with an uninsured driver and you're unable to work because of the injuries you sustained. the same situation exists when a pedestrian is injured severely enough by a bicyclist and can't work.
April 13, 2011, 10:39 am
BGGB from B-S says:
The name-calling and condescension truly bolsters your argument and helps show which one of us is the pretentious and self-absorbed one.

As I said, if it gets angry bike-obsessed haters like yourself to stop the acrimony, I am fine with bike licensing and insurance.

In return, I'd like to see bike vehicle laws rewritten and enforced according to public danger.

150:1, my friend.
April 13, 2011, 12:14 pm
ty from pps says:
Joe Z --

What about the jogger that knocks down the old lady and breaks her hip? What about the walker who turns unexpectedly and trips someone and breaks their arm?

Should pedestrians be licensed and insured? The potential for harm is just as great as cars driving 40 mph.

What recourse do you have? You sue them. Not to mention, I'd like to know your magical method of getting the auto insurance companies to shower folks with cash? They seldom pay out for lost wages, etc. The most you can usually get is medical expense and *fully depreciated* values for property.

You seem to not realize that the —— cyclist (though you see them and ignore all of the safe cyclists) are probably an even lower proportion than the uninsured/unlicensed motorists. Unlike a car, a person on a bike is VERY aware of their own safety. They know that just getting knocked off their saddle HURTS... never mind anything worse.

I walk around a lot. I bike around a lot. I drive around a lot.

Here's what I see as the major problems to safety, in order.

#1 -- Reckless, aggressive, self-involved, distracted drivers who are relatively invulnerable to harm in their 3000-lb steel box. They only cause harm *to others* The awesome thing here is that most of the worst offenders are professional drivers... they drive for a living and still suck at it!! (seemingly on purpose)

#2 -- Pedestrians who are not paying attention and are self-entitled... and think they can walk anywhere, at anytime and all vehicles (cars, trucks, bicycles) will magically stop for them when they appear.

#3 -- Folks on bicycles that ride the wrong way and on the sidewalk. These folks should be ticketed.

(With the exception of a few ——s, the rest of the bike problems are wildly exaggerated and/or invented.)

This is ALSO the order that the NYPD should be prioritizing their safety "crack downs" -- not simply trying to score political points from NY Post readers. Imagine if speeding and running red lights was actually ticketed like they *should* be?! There would be millions of $$ pouring into the city's coffers and the streets would *actually* be safer!
April 13, 2011, 12:16 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
BGGB, have you ever heard of fudged data? I say that because this is exactly what JSK uses to claim that her statements are true in her defense on bicycles. Also, I don't find Plantzien a reliable source, the same reason I don't find anything from Streetsblog, and I know where they stand on the issues. Once again, some of the rules don't make sense, but they are there no matter what. If you don't like the rules, then take action to change it, just don't take that out on me, because I didn't make them, somebody else did. May I remind you that no new laws for cyclists were passed, these are actually laws that already exist. The only reason why there is a crackdown is the need to enforce them. BTW, there are a number of cities and states that do recquire bicyles to follow the same rules as if they are motor vehicles. If you can't follow the rules, that's your problem, not mine.
April 13, 2011, 7:11 pm
Bill from Brooklyn says:
FYI, slingshots and guns are treated equally if either is used to kill someone or in the commission of a crime.
April 14, 2011, 10:12 am
BGGB from bed-stuy says:
Tal, without any proof or evidence, you're rejecting data simply b/c it doesn't fit what you want to believe.

There's no point in having a dialog with you if you're going to do that.

Furthermore, the data is collected by the NYPD. Streetsblog or the DOT doesn't collect crash data, the NYPD does, then everyone else just does analysis.

Either provide alternate data or prove your own theory (WITH STATS). Otherwise have no proof whatsoever that the studies are wrong, or that you are right.

"FYI, slingshots and guns are treated equally if either is used to kill someone or in the commission of a crime."

Correct. And if you kill someone with your bike, you should be held fully responsible.

But as with using a slingshot, if you're engaging in very low-risk behavior (slow-rolling through a stop sign, for example), you should not be punished as if you sped through an intersection with a 3000 lb car at 40 mph, just as slingshot owners shouldn't be punished and regulated like gun owners for minor infractions, like slinging a pebble at someone.
April 14, 2011, 11:50 am
Mike says:
Indeed, there is no point in having a dialog with Tal. All he does is troll, and none of what he says is even remotely data-driven. For Tal, anecdote always trumps data.
April 17, 2011, 12:12 pm
mikeyg from brooklyn says:
Bikes pretty much have to follow the same rules as automobiles but it looks like they are making there own rules of the road lets get it together bikers.
Aug. 16, 2011, 11:03 pm
Tal Barzilla from Pleasantville, NY says:
First of all, I couldn't have made that post at 8:11 b/c I was busy making a long-winded argument over at Streetsblog. I have my suspects, so just stop it right now. Personal atttacks never strengthen your hand. On a side note, it is like when Hamas attacks innocent israeli civilians...this only makes israel more resolutee and justified when it targets these terrorists. The Streetsbloggers would have you believe that all car drivers are evil subsidized lunatics behind the wheel when the overwelming majority are hard working taxpaying adults struggling to get to work/home but being forced to share the street that was narrowed to allow bike lanes for those miscreants who only work as bike couriers or are unemployed. These are facts, and you don't have to believe me, just do the research on google and you will find ample studies supportting my perspecktive. The streetsbloggers attack with falsities and pesonal attacks while the nerdy leftist in me painstakingly debunks these arguments and patiently takes on the cassandras and doubting thomases.
Sept. 9, 2011, 11:02 pm

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