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Coney Island’s wild ride

for The Brooklyn Paper

Since Mayor Bloomberg announced on Nov. 8 that he wanted to protect the core of Coney Island’s amusement district — where the Cyclone races, the Wonder Wheel spins and the Shoot the Freak shoots — Coney Island’s future has hung in the balance.

Bloomberg’s bombshell announcement that Coney Island’s beleaguered (and small) amusement area would be reborn with new rides, attractions and hotels pretty much dismissed the neighborhood’s principle landowner, Joe Sitt — even though Sitt’s $2-billion “Las Vegas on the Boardwalk” included many of the same elements as the mayor’s plan.

Whose plan is better? We invited both sides — a Bloomberg supporter and a Sitt supporter — to weigh in.

Bloomberg’s plan is saving amusements

By Dick Zigun

They call me “the Mayor of Coney Island,” but I am not a real politician, I just play one on TV. I’m the guy in the straw hat banging the drum at the front of my Mermaid Parade. I’m an arts guy and pretty good at it, but I have absolutely no political ambitions.

In a momentary lapse of good judgment, Coney Island’s real mayor, Michael Bloomberg, appointed me to the Coney Island Development Corporation. For the record, I voted against Bloomberg twice, but like many New Yorkers, I have come to admire his competence.

As a CIDC board member, I am frequently bored or frustrated out of my mind. But I respect the CIDC’s main accomplishment to-date: the creation of a Strategic Plan that serves as a road map and grand vision for reviving our playland and beach.

While hardly the Zigun Plan, the Strategic Plan had balance and merit, and before real-estate politics got in the way, it had the support of pretty much everyone. The artful compromise calls for revitalizing a shrunken amusement park core with an outer band of residential housing sitting atop ground-floor entertainment retail. All agreed that it was just the right balance.

But then Thor Equities purchased most of the designated amusement park core and tried to renegotiate the compromise. Now, all hell is breaking loose!

The other night I got a taste of real Brooklyn politics when a state Senator — who doesn’t even represent Coney Island — bused in hundreds of protesters in day-glow lime caps to bully our attempt at a public meeting. The state Senator scared me, and I’ve been laying low for four weeks.

In the 25 years of playing Coney Island’s fictional mayor, I’ve tried hard to be an honest — if quirky — spokesman for its amusement businesses.

But since most of that constituency has recently sold its property, I’m free to speak my own mind and tell the truth as much as possible. And from that viewpoint, I can tell you this: Thor’s plan is a disaster for the amusement park and the mayor’s plan, while flawed, is fascinating.

Bloomberg is the true amusement park advocate — by a landslide! The Thor plan would severely marginalize the impact of the ride experience. Sure, there are a few rides in that plan, but there is no longer a “core” and without enough ride acreage, Coney is out of balance and no longer the world’s playground.

In the opposite corner, the mayor boldly confronts Thor’s ownership of the core by creating a permanent ride zone — in perpetuity — by designating the area as parkland. Mayor Bloomberg’s plan imagines a forever-protected, Tivoli Gardens–like Coney Island for the 21st century.

While the Mayor’s proposal has strayed somewhat from the commitment to include entertainment on the ground floor under the new housing, it is friendly to historic preservation and to the legacy of Coney Island. It needs off-site parking and the return of the Surf Avenue trolley, but I believe we can fine-tune it.

Amusement park advocates should stand and applaud this a bold and innovative city plan. Hell, man, this is Brooklyn; bring your 300 loudest friends in matching tie-dye hats to our next public meeting on Jan. 7.

Because at the end of the day, the elected officials who actually do represent Coney Island are going to make decisions that will affect it for decades.

Dick Zigun is the founder of Coney Island USA, which runs the Mermaid Parade and the Coney Island Circus Sideshow.

Thor’s plan is the best for the beach

By Digna Rodriguez

When Thor Equities began its quest to revitalize Coney Island five years ago, our goal was simple: we wanted to give residents of this iconic neighborhood, and the hundreds of thousands of visitors who stop by each year the opportunity to experience this treasured slice of New York, a rejuvenated area with year-round amusements, and retail and entertainment venues. We wanted to return Coney to its heralded status as “America’s Playground.” And we wanted to achieve this goal immediately.

Anyone would be hard-pressed to find a single soul who believes Coney doesn’t deserve better than a place that hasn’t changed much since “The Warriors” was filmed nearly 30 years ago. For eight months out of 12, Coney Island is a desolate and bleak reminder of a dark era in our city’s past. Shops are closed, people are sparse and a generally gloomy sensation pervades the area.

Not only has research shown us the near-unanimity of Coney residents’ desire to remake the neighborhood, I’ve seen it personally. I’ve seen it on beautiful, sunny days, when couples have to dodge gaping holes in our once-historic Boardwalk in order to take an ocean-side stroll. I’ve seen it in children’s faces, when all they’re greeted with on Stillwell Avenue after Labor Day is metal gates infested with graffiti. I’ve seen it in tourists who visit during the summer and seem to wonder, “Is this it?”

Keeping that in mind, we came up with a comprehensive plan that would please both residents and visitors — an 11-acre site that will be the home to eye popping, jaw dropping year-round amusements and experiences, a place to make memories, a place almost triple the size of the legendry Astroland Park. To ensure Coney Island becomes a vibrant year-round entertainment destination, we added hotels, entertainment venues, restaurants, and retail attractions. Very few people know that South Brooklyn, with 1.3 million residents, would be the sixth largest city in the United States. Yet, South Brooklyn residents are shortchanged when it comes to basic retail amentities our plan would provide. Finally, we developed a plan that could get underway in a matter of months, and that taxpayers could afford.

Realizing that no plan is perfect, we listened and learned from the community, adjusting our proposal numerous times based on their suggestions and concerns. We scrapped condominiums from the plan, reduced heights of some buildings and allowed for even more amusements and games than originally planned.

But we feel that two elements of our plan cannot be altered in any incarnation. To have any chance of reaching Coney Island’s full potential, any revitalization must be year-round and must be completed in a timely fashion. If either of those two building blocks fails to materialize, we will be left with the same dilapidated conditions for far too long followed by a new Coney Island the falls far short of the neighborhood’s dreams.

To be clear, as the largest landowner in the amusement area, we continue to be committed to working with anyone — whether that be the city, the community or anyone with a love for Coney Island — who is dedicated to a shining new day for the neighborhood.

So there’s no confusion, we firmly believe that Mayor Bloomberg and his team are as committed as we are to transforming Coney Island into a true jewel in the crown of New York City.

We remain hopeful to work together with the city, community and local leaders to thoroughly but expeditiously build a revitalized, year-round Coney Island.

Digna Rodriguez is the director of Community Development for Thor Equities.

Reader Feedback

alvin pankin from sheepshead bay says:
what has thor actually built? what are his credentials to built this project. please, let's see the list. remember albee sq. mall !!!
Dec. 28, 2007, 8:21 am
Rick Finkel from Brighton Beach says:
Thor has proven to be nothing more than real estate speculators. Coney Island is famous for being an amusement area and it's important that we protect it as such. If Thor were sincere they would buy and build outside of the zoned amusement area but they are not sincere, otherwise they would. A beautiful mall on Neptune Ave., let's see it! Otherwise it's all hot air.
Dec. 28, 2007, 4:07 pm
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
Diana, stop shoveling your s##t down the residents of Coney Island. You have to stick up for your boss, but everyone knows, Thor never built anything, they are a land speculator, not a builder. Your lies are sliced so thin, anyone but the most uneducated idiot knows, you only want one thing, to increase the value of the land, so you can sell it, having it zoned for residential does that very nicely.

You say one thing, but you still plead for the city to REZONE ALL YOUR LAND for residential.

You say you want to build amusements, guess what? you can right now, but the only thing you ever built was a crappy infateable waterless 'water' slide.

Sitt gambled... and lost, so cut your losses, and make the best deal with the city for the land swap, Coney Island will always mean amusements, you want it to mean condos, it will never mean condos, as long as the citizens of Coney Island are against you, and you will never get your rezoning, because the citizens of Coney Island will never allow the amusement zone to be marginalized to nothing.

Thor Equities may own the land, but Coney Island belongs to the people.
Dec. 28, 2007, 11:30 pm
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
Digna, sorry, just realized I called you Diana, for that I do apologize.
Dec. 29, 2007, 12:10 am
Rational Adult from Plant Earth says:
Thor never built anything? I did a simple google search and quickly found a half dozen urban projects (Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, NY) ranging from hotels to malls done by Thor. Not sure if I like their Coney plans but I can't imagine why Nemo is trying to dispute the fact that Thor is an actual developer.
Dec. 29, 2007, 1:19 am
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
they never built something from the ground up, improved standing buildings, yes, build no. Thor flatened their land, there is nothing to improve upon. It is also important to note, that when they cleared their lands here and Red Hook, the city served stop work orders because they did not do things proper.

Take a walk to Coney and see Thor's fences and see how sturdy (not) they were built.
Dec. 29, 2007, 1:42 am
Rational Adult from Plant Earth says:
Where in the world do you get your info from? I can find at least 3 stories on google referencing Thor developing malls from the ground up.
Dec. 29, 2007, 2:18 am
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
and how many amusement parks did they ever build? And like someone else posted, lets see the list :)
Dec. 29, 2007, 4:02 am
Jacob from Brighton says:
Not many people build amusement parks, Bruce. Do we rally want Coney to be Disney or Six Flags? I don't.

And condos have been off the Thor version of Coney for months. Why do you keep repeating this misinformation?
Dec. 29, 2007, 1:20 pm
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
Because Jacob, Joe Bull Sitt speaks with forked tongue, even though he says one thing, no condos, he is still pleading with the city to rezone all his land for residential, and if he has a choice of building amusements or condos, what do you think he will build??

And for those who think he will build amusements, he can now, so why doesnt he? cause he has no plans to build anything but condos, remember him saying, amusements dont make money?

And remember his last official plan he released, he is asking for 100 million dollars from the city, fully expecting the city to tell him no, so he has a excuse to get out of that plan, and reintroduce condos back in his project.
Dec. 29, 2007, 4:46 pm
Jacob from Brighton says:
Bruce, a check of the Dept of Planning website shows that Sitt has no pending applications to rezone his property for residential, as you claim. Until Thor actually files for something, how about you stop making random prescriptions for their behavior?
Dec. 29, 2007, 10:11 pm
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
I dont know where or how you can find that, but it is well known what Joe Bull Sitt is seeking to build condos on his land which requires rezoning. He has released plan after plan showing he wants to do this. He is spending money on people to influence to help that happen. I dont know how you can say with a straight face he has no intention to do so, so what do you think he wants to do with 12 acres of land in the amusement park zone??
Dec. 30, 2007, 3:42 am
Jacob from Brighton says:
Bruce, again you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Thor removed condos from their plans months ago-- the latest version shows only amusements, hotel, and entertainment.

The fact that you make these accusations without having any knowledge of the NYC planning portal is absurd. Thor has no rezoning plans on file, period.
Dec. 31, 2007, 2:58 pm
Bruce aka Capt_Nemo from Coney Island says:
Jacob, fine, believe what you want to believe, you forgot to include the 100 million from the city and timeshares.

Just remember this, Thor destroys the amusement park zone, the city perserves it. That is all I am going to say on the subject. I think you did enough shilling, so go pick up your paycheck from Thor. :)

And when you see the plaque that goes on the corner stone of Coney Island Condos, 'here once stood the last great amusement park', we know who knows what we are talking about :) Have a good day.
Dec. 31, 2007, 6:46 pm
Frank T from Coney island says:

"Anyone would be hard-pressed to find a single soul who believes Coney doesn’t deserve better than a place that hasn’t changed much since “The Warriors” was filmed nearly 30 years ago."

Well, it has changed since "The Warriors". Block after block was torn down to make room for gambling casinos even though the state legislature said they would not allow it. Then after the city finally promised to allow an amusement park to be built on the old Steeplechase Park site and a local businessman spent millions to develop that park, but at the last second the city decided to build a baseball stadium instead. And then they tore down a coaster and historic house for a hotel next to the baseball stadium that Forest Ratner said he wanted to build but then backed out of. Then last year your guy tore down two more blocks that had rides my kids loved. So yes, Coney has changed a lot since "The Warriors" was filmed, and we would all give anything if it just returned to those days.
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:11 pm
Frank T from Coney island says:

"For eight months out of 12, Coney Island is a desolate and bleak reminder of a dark era in our city’s past. Shops are closed, people are sparse and a generally gloomy sensation pervades the area."

Things are only closed for five months. November December January February March. The first day the amusement parks open is usually April 1st and the last day they stay open is October 31st. This all weather permitting because who is going to come here when it is wet and cold? And Nathans and the arcade are still open. So are the furniture stores along the avenue. The only thing closed is the amusement parks. And no one is going into that area in the winter anyway so who would notice.






"Not only has research shown us the near-unanimity of Coney residents’ desire to remake the neighborhood, I’ve seen it personally."

Lady, do you really think all us residents want to be kicked out of our own neighborhood. Because that is what your guy wants. He is not building apartments we can afford. He is building apartments that cost a million to move into. And once those goes up so does my rent and I am forced to move elsewhere. What the hell makes you think we all want that for?
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:12 pm
Frank T from Coney island says:

"For eight months out of 12, Coney Island is a desolate and bleak reminder of a dark era in our city’s past. Shops are closed, people are sparse and a generally gloomy sensation pervades the area."

Things are only closed for five months. November December January February March. The first day the amusement parks open is usually April 1st and the last day they stay open is October 31st. This all weather permitting because who is going to come here when it is wet and cold? And Nathans and the arcade are still open. So are the furniture stores along the avenue. The only thing closed is the amusement parks. And no one is going into that area in the winter anyway so who would notice.

"Not only has research shown us the near-unanimity of Coney residents’ desire to remake the neighborhood, I’ve seen it personally."

Lady, do you really think all us residents want to be kicked out of our own neighborhood. Because that is what your guy wants. He is not building apartments we can afford. He is building apartments that cost a million to move into. And once those goes up so does my rent and I am forced to move elsewhere. What the hell makes you think we all want that for?
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:12 pm
Frank T from Coney island says:
"For eight months out of 12, Coney Island is a desolate and bleak reminder of a dark era in our city’s past. Shops are closed, people are sparse and a generally gloomy sensation pervades the area."

Things are only closed for five months. November December January February March. The first day the amusement parks open is usually April 1st and the last day they stay open is October 31st. This all weather permitting because who is going to come here when it is wet and cold? And Nathans and the arcade are still open. So are the furniture stores along the avenue. The only thing closed is the amusement parks. And no one is going into that area in the winter anyway so who would notice.
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:13 pm
Frank T from Coney island says:
"For eight months out of 12, Coney Island is a desolate and bleak reminder of a dark era in our city’s past. Shops are closed, people are sparse and a generally gloomy sensation pervades the area."

Things are only closed for five months. November December January February March. The first day the amusement parks open is usually April 1st and the last day they stay open is October 31st. And Nathans and the arcade are still open. The only thing closed is the amusement parks. And no one is going into that area in the winter anyway so who would notice.
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:14 pm
Frank T from Coney island says:
"For eight months out of 12, Coney Island is a desolate and bleak reminder of a dark era in our city’s past. Shops are closed, people are sparse and a generally gloomy sensation pervades the area."

Things are only closed for five months. November December January February March. The first day the amusement parks open is usually April 1st and the last day they stay open is October 31st. And Nathans and the arcade are still open.
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:14 pm
Frank T from Coney Island says:
"I’ve seen it on beautiful, sunny days, when couples have to dodge gaping holes in our once-historic Boardwalk in order to take an ocean-side stroll."

Has your guy donated dime one to get that boardwalk repaired? No. Matter of fact one of his trucks that was tearing down the rides damaged part of the boardwalk around 12th and drove off without doing anything about it. And what about the cracked sidewalk that your guy caused when he was pounding in his fence posts. You don't think people are tripping over that too?





"I’ve seen it in children’s faces, when all they’re greeted with on Stillwell Avenue after Labor Day is metal gates infested with graffiti."

What I have seen on my childrens faces is the look when the boat ride was gone from Stilwell in July. Those amusement parks are still open after Labor day and are only closed during school hours because kids are not suppose to be there then.





"I’ve seen it in tourists who visit during the summer and seem to wonder, “Is this it?”

That is exactly what they said when they saw that plastic slide that your man put up behind Nathans Famous.
"Keeping that in mind, we came up with a comprehensive plan that would please both residents and visitors"
No you didn't.
Dec. 31, 2007, 11:18 pm
Frank T from Coney Island says:
" an 11-acre site that will be the home to eye popping, jaw dropping year-round amusements and experiences, a place to make memories, a place almost triple the size of the legendry Astroland Park."

Lady. Do the math. You are taking land away from where the rides are and putting apartments and hotels there. When you take away you make the sum smaller. How the hell are you going to triple the size of the place when you are going to cut it in half? Why don't you go back to school and learn your math.





"To ensure Coney Island becomes a vibrant year-round entertainment destination, we added hotels, entertainment venues, restaurants, and retail attractions. Very few people know that South Brooklyn, with 1.3 million residents, would be the sixth largest city in the United States. Yet, South Brooklyn residents are shortchanged when it comes to basic retail amentities our plan would provide. Finally, we developed a plan that could get underway in a matter of months, and that taxpayers could afford."

Your guy said the same thing about northern Brooklyn when he said he wanted to rebuild Albee Square. Now look at it. No mall, no retail, no movie theaters, no restaurants, no entertainment. Just an office building going in the place.





Dec. 31, 2007, 11:21 pm
Frank T from Coney Island says:
"Realizing that no plan is perfect, we listened and learned from the community, adjusting our proposal numerous times based on their suggestions and concerns. We scrapped condominiums from the plan, reduced heights of some buildings and allowed for even more amusements and games than originally planned."

You planned even less amusements? You only got a block there in the picture, and half of that block has restaurants and crap on it instead of rides. How were you going to plan less rides than that? And condos and time shares are the same thing. I once went to a free seminar in the catskills where some dude explained that to me. A time share is a condo that more than one person shares, but if I wanted I could by the other shareholders out and own it all year to myself.





Dec. 31, 2007, 11:22 pm
Jacob from Brighton says:
Bruce-- you continue to just be a total nut on this subject. Any one who disagrees with you is dismissed as a "shill." Well, given your rampant hatred for Thor, I am going to assume you're collecting a paycheck from the city or from Taconic. Shill! Shill! Shill!
Jan. 1, 2008, 11:47 am
Jacob from Brighton says:
I was out there in October and there was no amusement operator still working at the end of the month. And what do you mean that no one is going to Coney during that time of year? What about all the people who live there?

"Things are only closed for five months. November December January February March. The first day the amusement parks open is usually April 1st and the last day they stay open is October 31st. This all weather permitting because who is going to come here when it is wet and cold? And Nathans and the arcade are still open. So are the furniture stores along the avenue. The only thing closed is the amusement parks. And no one is going into that area in the winter anyway so who would notice."

Jan. 1, 2008, 11:49 am
Robert Taplitz from East Tremont says:
Things are open in october. But you have to use your brain.:) If you are going after Laborday then yo have to go on a weekend or holiday and only if it is nice out. The parks have to let go their staff after Laborday because not enough people show up to pay them. But the owners are still there in Sept. and Oct.and if a lot of people are on the boardwalk then they will turn some of the rides on and run it themselves. And they guy who owned the merry go round across the street from Nathans use to keep it open all year long. Nathans is also open all year long. So is the aquarium and so is the bar on the boardwalk.

Even if they let Thor buy Coney Island he is not going to be able to open anything up after Laborday because just like everyone else there he is going to have to cut his staff when fall and winter comes and he will have no one there to run the rides. Things are still going to be shut down for nine months. Don't kid yourself.
Jan. 1, 2008, 4:33 pm
Rational Adult from Plant Earth says:
I am so disturbed by some of the blatantly wrong info being given by posters here.

Robert, Thor ALREADY OWNS CONEY. What do you mean "if they let Thor buy Coney Island?"

What do you mean, "he's going to have to cut his staff when winter comes?" Have you even LOOKED at the plans? They include hotels and indoor entertainment/attractions that can be used year round.
Jan. 2, 2008, 9:53 pm
Ed from New Jersey says:
Hey Adult from Planet Earth

I have worked for hotels. When you have a hotel in an area that does seasonal business it is standard operational procedure to cut staff for the off season months. Ski lodges cut their staff during the spring, summer, and early fall months. Hotels along beach fronts cut their staff during the fall, winter, and early spring months. Even down in Miami they have laid their staff off for a few weeks while they sit out the cold spell. You do not keep a hotel fully staffed when business is slow. Unles Thor has plans to include a casino on their property then there is no way they can keep their hotels fully staffed during the winter. If the Thor hotels do not do this then they will all be bankrupted by the spring.

I am sure the same thing goes for the amusement parks over there. Even if they were indoors and heated then they would still have to shut down operations during the winter months. It was pretty warm up through November this year and still businesses in Wildwood stayed closed after the summer ended. It is that simple. You cant stay open if there is no business.
Jan. 7, 2008, 7:44 am
Adult from Planet Earth says:
Ed, the Thor plans include indoor amusements and a water park, which would attract people year-round. And if you know anything about the tri-state hotel market, you'd know that the occupancy rates in this area hover at around 100%-- these hotels would always be full with conventions, etc.


Jan. 11, 2008, 12:56 pm

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