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Higher meter rates pitched for Atlantic, Court, Smith

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Finding parking in Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, and Brooklyn Heights will get more expensive — and hopefully easier — under a city proposal that calls for jacking up meter rates to curb spot-hogging drivers.

The fees at muni-meters will increase after 30 minutes on Atlantic Avenue between Hicks Street and Fourth Avenue, and on Court and Smith streets between Atlantic Avenue and Sackett Street if the Department of Transporta­tion’s pilot program gets off the ground this spring.

The initiative, dubbed Park Smart, banks on the premise that motorists park with their wallets: drivers would pay $1.50 for an hour rather $1, $2.50 for 90 minutes up from $1.50, and $4 for two hours instead of $2.

“We want people to buy just the right amount of time and we want to preserve our rates for people who make short stays,” Department of Transportation Park Smart manager Manzell Blakely said Thursday at a Community Board 6 meeting, in which the transportation committee unanimously voted in favor of the six month-long trial. “It’s a compromise and we do think that this will really move the long-term parkers to off-street solutions where they exist.”

Merchants on bustling Atlantic Avenue who have been pushing local pols to reform parking along the traffic-clogged strip for more than a year say the new program will stop drivers from monopolizing spots and increase turnover rates, which will be good for business.

“The biggest problem our customers have is not being able to park,” said Charlie Sahadi, owner of Atlantic Avenue’s mainstay Sahadi’s Specialty and Fine Foods.

Sahadi said many shopkeepers and their employees feed the meter all day long to park on the street, taking away valuable spaces from customers — and he hopes they will stop if the rates are higher.

“Would you rather not have a parking space or would you rather pay a little more to park?” Sahadi said.

Under the new policy, which comes after a request by the Atlantic Avenue Business Improvement District, all one-hour parking meters will be extended to two hours, truck-only loading zones will be installed at three locations, and three no-parking areas will be eliminated to free up spaces.

But some neighbors are skeptical, claiming the proposed price hike is just a way for the city to make an extra buck.

“This is just another revenue bid by the city,” said Steven Hart of Warren Street. “Raising the rates will just drive traffic more frequently into the residential blocks.”

The Department of Transportation used time-lapse photography to determine exactly how long people leave their cars, and the number of available spaces at any one instant. The agency also surveyed 100 business owners for feedback.

Higher fee meters are a permanent fixture on Fifth and Seventh avenues in Park Slope since a similar pilot program in 2010, and merchants say the parking problem, though slightly alleviated, still exists.

“By no means has this Park Smart program eliminated the problem,” said Bob Kalb, owner Seventh Avenue’s Park Slope Copy Center. “There are simply too many cars for the amount of available spots, but it does discourage people from staying longer when the rates are higher.”

The agency said that on Park Slope’s Seventh Avenue the average duration a car spent in a single spot dropped from 71 minutes in 2009 to 55 minutes in 2010.

“That basically means that more different people were parking in the neighborhood and that’s a positive,” said Blakely.

The agency needs the full approval of Community Boards 2 and 6 before moving forward.

Reach reporter Natalie Musumeci at nmusumeci@cnglocal.com or by calling (718) 260-4505. Follow her at twitter.com/souleddout.

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Reader Feedback

Eric McClure from Park Slope says:
DOT data from Park Slope shows no evidence of higher meter rates driving "traffic more frequently into the residential blocks." In fact, the opposite is true, because higher rates tend to free up more spots at the curb, and the rates being charged are still far below those charged by privately run garages and lots.
Feb. 22, 2013, 3:44 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Muni-meter rates are already high as they are. I would not be surprised if most won't be using them until just about the time they life or on days they aren't in effect. I know that when I reach a block that is slated for two hours that will end at 7 PM that day, many are getting there at 5 PM just to have the last two hours of the day and having it free the remainder of that time, so that they can feel unhindered by the time. Meanwhile, the ones for commercial vehicles don't even take credit or debit cards, but quarters only, which makes it hard for them to pay for to get the time unless they somehow have a roll of quarters with them. The reason why those spaces won't be used so much is because most don't want to pay that high unless they happened to be on the high end of the ladder. Keep in mind that some of those who are looking for spots without paying or doing more than just shopping on a particular block for that day.
Feb. 22, 2013, 4:37 pm
ty from pps says:
Oh my Sweet Jesus, Tal. Shut up.
Feb. 22, 2013, 5:03 pm
Jay from Downtown says:
Means niothing as the parking hoggers will just buy half hour increments which they do now...
Feb. 22, 2013, 5:30 pm
Jean from Park Slope says:
For what it's worth, Court and Smith do street cleaning every morning, so most people don't park there "all night" since you have to move it before 730 am
Feb. 22, 2013, 6:20 pm
SwampYankee from runined Brooklny says:
Glad I have a placard. Good to work for the city. Free parking, free medical, free pension and Ty pays for it. Think I'll park in the bike lane instead of my garage tonight
Feb. 22, 2013, 7:41 pm
JAY from NYC says:
BIGOT TAL GET OFF THIS BOARD!!!!
I don't think this proposal will have much effect, the city will get a bit more revune, but this is an area where people are paying 1.7 million and up for their homes, 50 cents an hour is not gong to make people with that kind of change, change their habits.
Feb. 22, 2013, 8:07 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
I take it those that support this obviously don't drive on a normal basis like I do, because if you did, you would understand why it's too high. Those of us who drive are already paying for a lot just for owning a car alone through numerous fees and taxes, and I didn't even bring up parking and gas prices yet, and I know that none of these are subsidized at all and keep on increasing much more constantly than city transit fares do. I have always seen metered parking as just paying extra for a road that tax dollars are already going for, which makes it like a double tip just like the tolls on numerous highways and crossings. The only positive thing I can see about muni meters compared to the regular parking meters is that a car doesn't need to take the length of a meter space, so it can work where the is parking that doesn't require this. However, there are more negatives to this. The first one is that if you are not near the machine, you have to walk all the way down the block to pay it, and there is a good chance that the cops will ticket you before you do so, and there have been stories on that. The other is that when one leaves even before their time runs out, the extra time leaves with them, so the next person will have to pay the moment they park there despite the fact that the one that was already there didn't finish what they had whereas that wouldn't be the case with a normal parking meter. Overall, I don't think that people would be changing their habits, but they will probably do less if they happen to be trying to save money, and they don't wish to spend so much on parking alone. As for revenue, if they are much higher, there is a better chance that only a few will use them, so no revenue could be made from that just like what would have happened if congestion pricing was passed. On a side note, I could never understand why these muni meters don't take dollars at all, and that really hurts if that person has no quarters.
Feb. 23, 2013, 5:31 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
JAY from NYC says:

BIGOT TAL GET OFF THIS BOARD!!!!

why do you call tal a bigot and why does he not have first amendment rights?
Feb. 23, 2013, 5:54 pm
JAY from NYC says:
old time he has first amendment rights, I am merely pointing out the irony of that since TAL wants to deny others their first amendment rights by using the government to shut people up that he does not agree with.
Specifically I am referring to a couple of people Judith Butler, a philosopher, and Omar Barghouti who were at Brooklyn College a few weeks ago who advocate for boycotting Isreal. Tal is a bigot because he called these people neo-nazis and has been unwilling to give a sherd of evidence that they are in fact neo-nazis.
Feb. 23, 2013, 8:08 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
I will put this in a way that even George W Bush and Sarah Palin would understand. If you don't like what I am saying, then simply don't read, because it's not as if anyone forces you do to so. Other than that, you guys had a right to say how you felt that increasing metered parking rates are right, and I have right to say how it's wrong. As for that claim on the BDS, I know that JAY has an anti-Israel, so anything I give, he will say it's wrong even if it's proven true, and they do have the support of the Electronic Intifada, which hardly advocates for peace between Israel and Palestine.
Feb. 23, 2013, 9:39 pm
JAY from NYC says:
wrong Tal YOU called them neo nazis and if that were true, you would have evidence, and you don't. That speaks for itself.
Furthermore just because one group likes some other people, does not mean those people are neo-nazis. Thats like saying the Jets are neo-nazis because there are a group of guys in south jersey with a neo-nazi website who also happen to like the jets. The Jets are a lot of things, mostly involving sucking and losing, but I am pretty sure they are not neo-nazis
Your argument is simply stupid on its face. And by the way the Electronic Intifada are NOT neo-naizs either, which takes you entire post off the cliff and into the abysmal blackhole of electronic idiotica.
Furthermore I am not anti Israel, (and you claiming that I am is just another one of your nitwit idiot dumb moron lame sorry horrible vile repugnant excuse for a pile of stinking rotting pile of garbage sitting in the hot sun while a dog takes a dump on it and a passer by throws up at the sit of it comments) but I am against people who violate human rights, and I am against people who support those who do, and I am against those like yourself who want to use the government to shut people up, and I am against those who want to rip up the U.S. Constitution, and I am against those who want to use my tax dollars to support things that violate U.S. law, and I am against people who call others names and make things up based on bigotry.
But lets for argument say you are right and everything you say is true, Even if someone is anti-Israel that does NOT make them a neo-nazi, so even if everything you are trying to claim is true, that still would not make these people neo-nazis as you have claimed.
You have not offered one bit of proof that these people are in fact neo-nazis, and your stupid links to propaganda sites are not proof Tal.
Proof is an original source document or picture showing something, and you have not put up a single one that shows these people are neo-nazis.
Nor have you even given a legitimate credible news source in lieu of a original source document.
If you show me something that proves these people are neo-nazis from either a original source document or a legitimate credible news source then I will accept that, but you have not.
I have been asking you to for weeks to do so, and you have not, instead what you do is offer excuses and make up things about me that are not true, and call people names and smear people and try and blame Syria and other mutterings that are beyond worthless when all you would have to do to prove your point is offer up actual proof and you have not done so.
Show me a picture where they are wearing a Nazi uniform, show me a picture where the are giving a Nazi salute, show me a published speech where they say that we need a 4th Reich, show me where they are raising funds for a actual documented neo-nazi group, like say the Illinois Nazis.
If these people are such well known neo-nazis as you claim, then you should have no trouble finding that info on the web, but you have not done that, have you Tal?
Now why is that Tal, is the info hidden in area 51 and only you have a security clearance to access that info? Or let me guess, your dog ate it? Oh I know, you are waiting for it to get posted on wikileaks maybe? Or maybe you need to adjust your tinfoil hat so the mother ship can send you a signal?
Whatever the reason Tal, you have called people things that are repugnant to all civilized people, which no one deserves to be called, unless that is what they actually are, and you have offered ZERO proof to justify calling those people such things, and THAT is disgusting.
Feb. 23, 2013, 11:12 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
call me a bigot as well - long live Israel -
Feb. 23, 2013, 11:52 pm
S from PPW says:
When will the Brooklyn Paper moderate these comments to ban Tal and Ty? It makes your website very unattractive and uninteresting to read such fighting!
Feb. 24, 2013, 10:01 am
ty from pps says:
Tal -- Please tell me the TOTAL amount of government imposed fees and taxes you pay to own your car. Give me the total.

"Those of us who drive are already paying for a lot just for owning a car alone through numerous fees and taxes"

I own a car. I don't think the amount I pay each year is very much at all... I certainly don't think it even comes close to paying for the portion of the roads I use.

Meanwhile, I have many friends who don't own a car. They are subsidizing ME and YOU through their taxes. Do they pay taxes just to maintain roads for commercial vehicles and emergency vehicles? OK. That's fair. Everyone agrees that this is important. But, why o' why, Tal, do you whine and complain that my carless friends don't subsidize your roads enough to pay for... What? $100 /year in taxes and fees?

Not to mention the purpose of parking meters (and time-limited parking for that matter). You seem to think it's only about revenue and making your life so hard and expensive. No, Tal. It's something else. But since you have proven yourself belligerent when facts challenge your "wisdom" -- there's really no point in explaining it AGAIN. (This and soooo many other very basic traffic science concepts... and really life in general... have been explained so many times by so many people and you keep coming back with the same willfully ignorant comments!)
Feb. 24, 2013, 10:55 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, believe or not, motorists contribute much more to the state than any other group does. I am paying fees for maintenance, licensing, registration, and insurance, which are the main ones. Over the years, they have gone up in high amounts, which makes the recent MTA raises in the monthly or unlimited Metrocard rides feel like peanuts. Until those surpass the fees that I am paying every year, there is no reason to complain about that. Don't through me that study by Donald Shoup, because I know he is anti-car as well as claims from that Cap'n Transit blog either, because I know where he stands on that issue. Nobody will argue that driving is subsidized, but that's mainly because it's used the most, but that doesn't mean that everything else isn't being subsidized at the same time. Keep in mind that much of the MTA actually gets most of their funding from from those who live in the rest of downstate NY who don't live near any sufficient transit, but I don't hear any thanks from them after keeping their fares low while muni meter and toll rates are going up even higher all the time, which I have to pay for myself.
Feb. 24, 2013, 11:49 am
ty from pps says:
Unlike you, Tal. I don't "through" random websites at people.... nor do I start ranting about unrelated topics to "prove" a point.

Again, Tal. You said you pay taxes and fees... The ONLY ones that you listed that are government taxes and fees are Licensing and Registration. How much are those? THIS is what we are talking about. "Until those surpass the fees that I am paying every year" Umm... You mean the maybe $100 you pay in registration and licensing? Remember, Tal, I also pay these. I own a car. I know just as well as you how much it costs.

Your insurance? How does that matter? Does the money you pay the insurance company pave roads? If so, I'd love to know.

Your car maintenance?! Really? Guess what? Dry cleaning has also increased a lot in the last decade.

"Keep in mind that much of the MTA actually gets most of their funding from from those who live in the rest of downstate NY who don't live near any sufficient transit"

THAT IS FALSE. FALSE. FALSE. I don't care about the rest of the argument at this point. If you start with this willfully ignorance premise, the rest doesn't matter. FALSE FALSE FALSE.
Feb. 24, 2013, Noon
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, the amount of the costs the riders on transit pay the MTA is only 38%, and that is a very small number. Since when does that amount mean a majority? I guess when you use the same kind of math that FCR used to claim about how much the AY was going to be rail yards only. BTW, MTA tolls are much higher than their fares, and when the rates go up, they are in NOT in quarters as the fares are. Try looking at the reason why there are those who drive into the city rather than the effects, and you will understand why they drive into the city rather than taking mass transit. The main reason is because it's not always available for them especially when commuter trains and buses happen to be sporadic, so if a person wants to get in now, they would be better off driving. The same can be implied when going home as well especially when one has the work the late night shift such like at hospitals. Since commuter trains shut down after 11 PM and don't run again until 2 AM, so they would be better off driving to get home sooner. Don't even bring up the commuter tax, which drove away plenty of commuters, which is why this or congestion pricing will never pass if ever brought up again, because of the high opposition to them.
Feb. 24, 2013, 12:14 pm
ty from pps says:
Tal -- We've covered this before.

38% from the fare box.

How the f*^k does that translate into "Keep in mind that much of the MTA actually gets most of their funding from from those who live in the rest of downstate NY who don't live near any sufficient transit"??!!

It DOESN'T.

You seem to always forget that folks who pay to ride transit ALSO pay all of the other taxes too. Why do you forget that? Just like everyone pays for the roads.
Feb. 24, 2013, 12:32 pm
old rime brooklyn from slope says:
i think tal and ty are one in the same seperated by periods in between meds.

Mazel tov
Feb. 24, 2013, 1 pm
Rob from Greenpoint says:
Ty, seriously. I agree with you, but you're almost as bad as Tal by responding to him. He is not worth it. Trolls like him live on your comments. stop falling for his bait, and he will whither away in his basement.
Feb. 24, 2013, 1:30 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
If you don't like what I am saying, then just simply don't read it. Nobody is forcing you do to so anyway, but I guess to others' it's too mature for them. Nevertheless, I find revenue streams such as metered parking to be a bad idea in the long run. All it really does is just look at another way to nickel and dime everyone on places they are already paying for with taxes just like the tolls. Originally, metered parking was only meant for commercial and retail blocks, but was later on push into residential blocks. I don't think privatizing them would be a good idea, because the rates will go even higher and it will be a private business collecting the revenues made and the fines if any ever get placed. That has already been proven to be proven a failure wen tried in Chicago, so I would rather NYC not take those same risks. BTW, I do pay for roads especially for the ones in my hometown as well as those that are owned by my county, state, and even country, so I am not getting a free ride here. On a side note, anyone else who makes a personal attack at me will be reported as they will be seen as the trolls rather than me. For the record, I have never called for anyone who disagreed with me to be censored when I can cite that many times with the rest of you.
Feb. 24, 2013, 1:42 pm
Chris from Bushwick says:
Tal, what taxes do you pay to the city of New York, whose city taxpayer-funded DOT is responsible for maintaining these streets you park on?
Feb. 24, 2013, 4 pm
Jim from Cobble Hill says:
I've lived here my whole life and I have never needed a car. If you choose to drive for your convenience sake, they you are a 1%er and shouldn't care how much it costs.
Feb. 24, 2013, 5:50 pm
Jean from Park Slope says:
Jim, if you look at the faces behind the wheels of the cars that drive by you in Brooklyn (even my neighborhood) you will probably concede that they're unlikely to be "1%ers" - most drivers in brooklyn are driving commercial trucks, cabs/black cars, or are immigrants and working-class white/black/latinos who live beyond the reach of the subways in Flatlands and East New York etc.
Feb. 25, 2013, 10:40 am
ty from pps says:
Jean -- Just to be VERY clear... When folks speak about people that choose to drive, it should be painfully obvious that no one is talking about commercial vehicles, emergency vehicles and public transportation.

No matter what, private vehicles are a choice. Period. Even the folks that live in East New York. Does vehicle ownership win the cost-benefit analysis sometimes? Certainly. But it is a choice.

If you think the costs of parking meters have ANY relationship to costs of folks that choose to commute by car, you don't understand what commuting is. If you are commuting and the costs of parking meters affects you, you're doing something wrong.
Feb. 25, 2013, 3:29 pm
ty from pps says:
By the way, there's also this thing called a Bus.

http://www.mta.info/nyct/maps/busbkln.pdf
Feb. 25, 2013, 3:32 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
For the record, I am NOT part of the 1%, I actually see myself as part of the 99% instead. As a matter of fact, most of those that live in the best parts of the city where they have access to just about everything within walking distance or even convenient transit are the 1% if you asked me. I know that your idles Paul Steely White, who is the head of Transportation Alternatives, and Mark Gorton, who is the founder of Streetsblog, are just to name a few. Just because I happen to live in Westchester County, does not make me part of the one percent, and I could say the same about where some of you live, because I couldn't afford to do so on my income. Nevertheless, I do find parking rates to be high as is, and this is just about talking about those who are owning or renting garages or even the parking taxes themselves. BTW, there was someone on today's Daily News who wrote on the VOP about why muni meters are a bad idea. On a side note, on this same link, go the next page where someone talks about city bus riders who hardly pay their fares on the bus, which shows that fare beaters aren't a joke.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/feb-25-chris-quinn-comic-strips-parking-meters-article-1.1271302?pgno=1
Feb. 25, 2013, 5:41 pm
ty from pps says:
OK. That has to be a fake "Tal" right?
Feb. 25, 2013, 6:22 pm
tom from sunset park says:
I read the real estate supplement that came with the Times this weekend(Brown Harriman?). There were three solicitations for Cobble Hill that highlighted 'with parking'.
What does that tell you?
Feb. 25, 2013, 9:08 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
just make all the car owners wear yellow logo of the car they own on breast pocket - it worked really well in germany
Feb. 25, 2013, 9:45 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
In Israel, they have a special car you can display on your mirror or dashboard in several cities when it comes to metered parking, though it doesn't work in all of them, so please read it first before displaying.
Feb. 26, 2013, 5:58 pm

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