Pols lash out at pro-Palestine event at Brooklyn College

The Brooklyn Paper
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The group behind the failed Park Slope Food Co-op boycott of Israeli products is at the center of another controversy, this time at Brooklyn College, where a lecture about a pro-Palestine movement is prompting outrage from local pols.

The college’s political science department is sponsoring the lecture to discuss the pro-Palestinian Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement — but assemblymen Dov Hikind (D–Borough Park) and Steve Cymbrowitz (D–Brighton Beach) are calling on the publicly funded school to cancel the event, scheduled for Feb. 7.

“The issue is that it’s being sponsored with tax-payer dollars,” said Cymbrowitz, who helped organize a Thursday morning rally against the lecture.

The event, billed as a lecture “on the importance of [Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions] in helping end Israeli apartheid and the illegal occupation of Palestine,” features two speakers, Berkeley Professor Judith Butler, a philosopher and Palestinian rights advocate who is best known for her work on gender, and Omar Barghouti, a Palestinian human rights advocate.

Brooklyn College officials say that cancelling the event is out of the question, arguing that part of its mission is to hold events of this nature.

“As an institution of higher education, it is incumbent upon us to uphold the tenets of academic freedom and allow our students and faculty to engage in dialogue and debate on topics they may choose,” said Brooklyn College President Karen Gould in a statement. “Some may believe that our steadfast commitment to free speech signals an institutional endorsement of a particular point of view. Nothing could be further from the truth.”

Still, Cymbrowitz claims this has nothing to do with freedom of speech at all.

“If a student club wants to have these forums, let the forums continue, but it should not be sponsored by Brooklyn College,” he said.

Legal experts said the issue isn’t entirely cut and dry in the school’s favor.

“I don’t think the school has any constitutional obligation to show what is one side of a hot-button issue; suppose they only showed a Democratic candidate, but turned down the Republican one?” said free speech expert Jesse Choper, the Earl Warren Professor of Public Law at the University of California, Berkeley — a school that is no stranger to free speech controversies. “If they had someone there who was as far to the right as Judith Butler is to the left, then that would be another matter.”

Reach reporter Eli Rosenberg at or by calling (718) 260-2531. And follow him at
Updated 5:39 pm, July 9, 2018
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Reasonable discourse

Dave from Park Slope says:
The Assemblymen from Tel Aviv have spoken: speech is only free if it doesn't criticize Israel.
Feb. 1, 2013, 6:24 am
Meqdad from BedStuy says:
We all want peace, and yet, after more than a century of conflict, the struggle between these two related nations remains more intractable than ever. Why?

Because each side is entrenched in its own narrative, to the exclusion of the other’s.

Its faults notwithstanding, one must admit that Israel has taken some steps since the Oslo Accords toward acknowledging the Palestinian suffering. These steps are reflected in school books, in the media, and through other informational outlets. The Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza, for instance, are now referred to as “Palestinians,” and most Israelis would like to see a Palestinian state emerge. The fact that Israeli voters don’t reflect these wishes has to do with fears of surface-to-air missiles two miles from Ben-Gurion International Airport, and scarred memories of blown-up buses and pizzerias.

The Palestinians, unfortunately, have done little to allay Israeli fears. While Palestinians clamor for the removal of onerous checkpoints and barriers, militant attempts to penetrate these barriers and attack Israeli civilians have not ceased at all since the second Intifada. Similarly, school books and speeches, in Arabic, have grown radical, to the point of portraying Israel’s very existence as a crime. Little has been done to acknowledge the Jewish roots in Palestine.

The fact is that the Jewish presence in Palestine goes much farther back than most Palestinians, as well as Arabs and Muslims in general, would be willing to admit.

Before 1948, Palestine was ruled by a series of empires. Before that Palestine was Judaea—a Jewish country. Jews have lived in Palestine continuously for more than 3,300 years. "Palestine" was the name given to the Jewish homeland in the second century by the Romans, in an attempt to break the Jewish adherence to the land. This was a century after the Jewish temple was destroyed and more than a million Jews were massacred.

The Jews stopped fighting the Romans only after they had no more fighting men standing. As Evangelist William Eugene Blackstone put it in 1891, “The Jews never gave up their title to Palestine… They never abandoned the land. They made no treaty, they did not even surrender. They simply succumbed, after the most desperate conflict, to the overwhelming power of the Romans.”

The Jews persisted through the centuries under the various empires, after the Arab invasion of 635AD (which they fought alongside the Byzantines), and after the Crusade massacres of the 11th Century, which decimated much of their population. They never stopped returning, and their numbers recovered. In the 19th century, before the Zionist immigration, Jews constituted the largest religious group in Jerusalem.

Few Palestinians realize that Jewish customs, religion, prayers, poetry, holidays, and virtually every walk of life, documented for thousands of years—all revolve around Judaea/Palestine/Israel. For thousands of years Jews have been praying for Jerusalem in every prayer, after every meal, in every holiday, at every wedding, in every celebration. The whole Jewish religion is about Jerusalem and the Land of Israel. Western expressions such as “The Promised Land,” and “The Holy Land,” did not pop out of void. They have been part of Western knowledge and tradition dating back to the beginning of Christianity and earlier.

After the Crusades, the Jews—including many who have returned over the centuries—lived peacefully with Arabs, often in the very same villages, as in Pki'in, in the Galilee, until the Zionist immigration of the 19th and 20th Centuries. Article 6 of the PLO Charter specifically calls for the acceptance of all Jews present in Palestine prior to the Zionist immigration. These Jews were simply another ethnic group in a region composed of Sunnis, Shiites, Jews, Druz, Greek Orthodox, Catholics, Circassians, Samarians, and more. Some of these groups, like the Druz, Circassians, Samarians, and an increasing number of Christians, are actually loyal to the Jewish State.

Incidentally, genetic studies consistently show that Zionist immigrants (a.k.a., Ashkenazi Jews) are closely related to groups that predate the Arab conquest, like the Samarians, who have lived in Palestine for thousands of year.

Palestinian denial of these facts may lead to events such as the ones brilliantly depicted in Jonathan Bloomfield’s award-winning book, “Palestine,” in which actual history and predicted events are thinly veiled as fiction.

If, as the current Palestinian narrative goes, the Jews are not a people indigenous to Palestine but rather an invading foreign colonialist body, then they must be fought until they are removed from this land. Anything short of that, by any standard, would be injustice.

Thus, war and bloodshed will continue until the Palestinians start acknowledging the Jewish narrative, and the fact that Jewish roots in Palestine date back thousands of years, long before the Arab invasion.
Feb. 1, 2013, 7:54 am
Rob from Greenpoint says:
I think Helen Freedman is a bit confused.
Feb. 1, 2013, 8:11 am
ty from pps says:
If the hypocrite Alan Derschowitz and the despicable Dov Hikind are against you, chances are you're doing something right. I think the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement is wrong-headed in a lot of ways, but the opposition makes me want to support them.
Feb. 1, 2013, 10:59 am
Tony V from South Slope says:
I think there is room for an actual dialogue if it was restricted to the topic -- discussing whether sanctions (and other peaceful forms of resistance) are a viable political tool by citizenry and others instead of resorting to bloodshed.

As we all know, any discussion devolved to finger-pointing over who killed whom and which side has engaged in the worst atrocities. Peace and recognition will not come without massive amounts of heartache and bloodshed unless people move away from knee-jerk reactions.

I guess I will have to wait another lifetime or two before the people put away their childish things.
Feb. 1, 2013, 11:12 am
judahspechal from bedstuy says:
freedom of speech not freedom to hear what I approve of
Feb. 1, 2013, 11:19 am
Lost in Brooklyn from Bedstuy says:
I find in general that the Jewish people want no ones voice to be heard but their own. There's a pro-Jewish terrorism movie out now. Enjoy that. Let people speak. Not everyone who is Pro-Palestine is Anti-Israel or even Anti-Semitic. FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!
Feb. 1, 2013, 11:32 am
Dr. Seuss from Whoville says:
some had stars on their bellys and some had none on thars
Feb. 1, 2013, 12:57 pm
Kahlid from Cobble Hill says:
The PLO, established 3 years before "the occupation", has received BILLIONS in foreign aid but have not used it to aid our people(where is the infrastructure, hospitals, educational institutions, opportunities for advancement?). They squirrel it away in their Swiss Bank accounts - SUHA ARAFAT LIVES IN A POSH PARISIAN PENTHOUSE. SHE CARES LESS ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS THAN ANYONE! - and direct the world's ire at Israel. That's how they stay in business.They won't put themselves out of business by ever making peace!!! We Palestinians must rise up!!!!

We are suffering and we want peace but our leaders won't ever make peace and if we dare criticize the government, well, you know....DEATH, OUR BODIES DRAGGED THROUGH THE STREAT AND WE'RE BRANDED AS ISRAELI COLLABORATORS!!!
Feb. 1, 2013, 12:59 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
I am glad that the pro-Palestinian groups are being called out. Much of what they about Israel is usually slanderous. It almost makes me think if those who use the word apartheid even know what the word means. In South Africa, they had real apartheid where blacks weren't even allowed to set foot in any place the whites were and vice versa, but this was never the case in Israel. I thank both Alan Dershowitz and Dov Hinkind for standing up to this. It's one thing to say what Israel does is wrong, but another thing to make claims that aren't even true. On a side note, I am glad to hear a fellow Palestinian call out what those extremists over there. Just the last elections in Israel alone show who is for peace and who is not when a centrist party dominated the Knesset elections, who are very much willing to make peace, while extremist groups such as Hamas and Fatah still dominate the Palestinian Authority.
Feb. 1, 2013, 2:57 pm
ty from pps says:
Hey Tal -- Have you seen the walls and fences? Have you seen the West Bank (non-Palestinian) settlements? Have you experienced the water and utilities being turned off in East Jerusalem while they are perfectly fine a 1/2 mile away in West Jerusalem? Have you been prevented from going to work because there is a "closure" and you're not sure how you're going to feed your family?
Feb. 1, 2013, 3:20 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, those fences were placed in after decades of attacks from Hamas, not before any of them started. At first, both the PM and the Knesset thought it would be overreacting to place any fences and that the checkpoint would be enough. However, ongoing attacks lead to placing that wall just a few years ago. Also, it was supposed to be placed on just what defined the West Bank, but further attacks forced for it to moved further inward, though that was still considered the Green Zone there. Nevertheless, the fence worked well for both sides. On the Israeli side, they would not have to fear any terrorist groups such as Hamas wanting to come into to town to kill them, while on the Palestinian side, they don't have to worry about seeing IDF soldiers constantly patrolling the area. Ironically, many of the countries that call for this fence to be removed don't even remove their own security fences to make such a statement, which were done for the same purpose Israel placed their's. As for East Jerusalem, it's not considered part of the West Bank, but the rest of Jerusalem itself not to mention that it's home to the holy sites for the Jews, which many fear will be denied again if given to the Palestinians, who will most likely do the same when Jordan had that portion. Perhaps, if you started looking at the causes, you would understand why such action was taken rather than the effects.
Feb. 1, 2013, 3:45 pm
ty from pps says:
Wow Tal... can you read my questions before spewing crap?

"Have you experienced the water and utilities being turned off in East Jerusalem while they are perfectly fine a 1/2 mile away in West Jerusalem?" Where did I suggest East Jerusalem was part of the West Bank? It's not. It's an impoverished and abused part of the City of Jerusalem... primarily Palestinian (Muslim and Christian) population that regularly deals with disruption in basic services that the rest of the city does not deal with. It's a part of the city (somewhere I spent many days wandering around) that is very much the recipients of the short end of the Israeli Apartheid stick.

"Have you been prevented from going to work because there is a "closure" and you're not sure how you're going to feed your family?" Never responded to that one, eh?

Perhaps if YOU started look at the causes, YOU would understand.

You say, there's no real Apartheid in Israel, but then you state exactly how and why it's justified for there to be a real Apartheid in Israel... interesting.
Feb. 1, 2013, 5:36 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, the Palestinians, do NOT pay taxes to the Israeli government by any means. Therefore, you can't say that they are being taxed without representation. Also, it's the job of the Palestinian Authority to provide the services for them since they are living in both the Gaza Strip and West Bank where the Israeli government has no powers of any kind on. In the rest of Israel, freedom is giving to all groups, and they are not forced where to live, which was the case in South Africa under the apartheid you speak of. As for your claim in the eastern part of Jerusalem, this isn't something political, it's the fact that many don't pay their utility bills. Why should anyone get these services for free when others must pay for them? When you can't get any electricity, water, heating, or any other services, it's because you didn't pay your monthly utility bills, not because someone hates you. BTW, the Knesset has actually given more subsidies to the Arab sector than to any other part of the country yet they are still poor despite that.
Feb. 1, 2013, 6:41 pm
ty from pps says:
Again, Tal... what are you responding to?!? Your last comment was so full of baloney, I don't even know what to say.

I'll just stick with one item: "As for your claim in the eastern part of Jerusalem, this isn't something political, it's the fact that many don't pay their utility bills."

WHAT!? I'm talking about the disruption of basic services TO EVERYONE, not the utility company shutting off a particular house. Don't be so stupid. I want you to be smarter. I want you, Tal, to say intelligent things... but you have a serious problem with *not thinking* before your start typing. And then, after you type, you continue with not thinking.

I actually have very moderate views about the State of Israel... but from the sound of it, any criticism of Israel is unacceptable. So, go ahead. Brand me as a zealot. I'm already a "anti-car zealot" (even though I own and drive a car), why not call me an anti-Semitic, anti-Israel zealot too!
Feb. 1, 2013, 7:32 pm
jay from nyc says:
ok getting back to the topic of THIS article,
1) taking issue with some of Israeli policies is NOT the same thing as being anti-jewish, and I find it outrageous that there is a certain percentage of people who think the two are the same. Its like saying someone who says Italy's economy is in bad shape is anti-Catholic.
2) Instead of government officials deciding what view points we get to learn about, We have a thing here in the U.S. at the college level and higher called academic freedom in this country, its one of the many great things that sets us apart from places like China and North Korea and yes, even Nazi Germany where "the party" decides what is relevant to learn. It is a shame that certain people who are in positions of power, and the people who they claim to represent, fail to understand this.
To the people opposed to this event because their "tax dollars" are being used in part, fine, lets be intellectually honest then, and lets end the free ride and terminate the tax exempt status for all religious institutions and organizations, end tax deductions for donations to such organizations and institutions, and ban religious organizations from making political donations and call it fair? deal?
Feb. 1, 2013, 8:44 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, it's one thing to have concerns about what is going over there, but it's another thing to make claims that hold no grounds. I have asked many in the past proof to give the Israel shows apartheid, and many have either never answered back or sounded defensive. Keep in mind that this is the same group that called for the Park Slope Food Co-op to boycott selling Israeli products, but were fortunately stopped thanks to co-op for voted no on it. If this group is really about oppression, then what about the countries that show more evidence of that? Where is this group when Hamas launches qassam rockets at innocent civilians? Why no outcry there. Perhaps a counter group should be formed with both Israelis and Palestinians to free Palestine from its real oppressors known as Hamas and Fatah, who run the autonomy there. On may claim that hating Israel is not being anti-Semetic, but I have heard many statements at Israel that happened to be anti-Semetic. This is like trying to deny that anyone who hates the WNBA is sexist despite the number of sexist remarks aimed at that league, and there are a lot of them, but that's besides the point. Let's not forget that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, and Mahmoud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority, are known Holocaust deniers, plus Iran tends to host the annual Holocaust Deniers Convention. If that's not anti-Semetism, then I don't know what is.
Feb. 1, 2013, 9:31 pm
moishe/moussa from earth says:
I don't think BDS is "pro-Palestinian." It is anti-Israel, which is a different thing.

I am pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli. The two are not necessarily opposites, but if you listen to the haters on either side of the conflict, you would think that the two peoples can't live on the same planet.

I'm not here to offer solutions. I simply want to point out to the Brooklyn Paper that being anti-Israel is not the same as "pro-Palestinian."
Feb. 1, 2013, 11:44 pm
jay from nyc says:
Tal even if everything you say is true, not a single word of it has jack to do with the event at Brooklyn college, and anyone who says otherwise is simply not being intellectually honest.
Nice try though at trying to make this about something that its not by waiving a bloody flag around. Got news for ya pal, there are plenty of Jews who have serious complaints with Israel, so they are anti-jewish then?
Since you bought it up though, total death since 2008 by Quassam rockets: 16.
Total killed by Israel close to 7,000 since 2000 (those are the number killed only due to ordinance expended by Israel and not from other causes such as starvation, medicine shortages, etc due to blockaid, which by the way, from a legal perspective, is an act of war).
Number killed in Israel by traffic accidents for just 2011: 384.
Number of targets hit by IDF 2011 Nov 13-19, 1,350.
20% of Knesset who openly call for all non-jews in Israel to be thrown into the sea and also for all Palestine to be throw into the sea.
Israel discriminates against its own citizens whose mothers were not Jewish when it comes to things like marriage and burial, and non-jews are forced to get married outside of Israel, even though they are Israeli citizens.
That is your tax dollars at work by the way, as Israel would be gone in 60 seconds were it not for U.S. charity providing billions in welfare to Israel, meanwhile we can't even properly fund our own schools.
How about the fact that Christians in Israel are discriminated against and get crap for putting up a Christmas tree?
And how about this, According to the 2004 U.S. State Department reporting on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government had done "little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens".
and this TAL, The Association for Civil Rights In Israel published reports documenting racism in Israel, and the 2007 report suggested that anti-Arab racism in the country was increasing. One analysis of the report summarized it thus: "Over two-thirds Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together....
The march 2007 ACRI's racism poll, in which 50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their home.
and here is some more Tal, A March 2010 poll by Tel Aviv University found that 49.5% of Israeli Jewish high school students believe Israeli Arabs should not be entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel. 56% believe Arabs should not be eligible to the Knesset, the Israeli parliament.
How about "goyim", a racist bigot term some jews use to describe those who are not Jewish. What about that Tal?
Jimmy Carter got called an anti-semite when he made comments that said Israel needs to change, and the reality is if not for people like Jimmy Carter Israel would not even exist.
I contrast the above with the many U.S. Jews I know who find the above repugnant, so does that then make them anti-Semites? BY your logic it would seem so.
So if this is about tax dollars, then please explain to me why MY country should give ANOTHER country, for going on 8 decades, billions of dollars to continue to practice things that would violate the U.S. constitution and U.S. law and this is ok, but if someone wants to have a conference at a local college, well then THAT is going tooooo far and is a horrible threat and must be stopped?
Please Tal explain to me how they have anything to do with each other. Please Tal, tell me why we should tear up the Constitution in this country and destroy academic freedom?
This country beat the French-Indians, the British (twice) fought a war against it self over slavery and survived that, beat Mexico in a war, beat the Spanish Empire, won Two World Wars, stopped the Chinese in Korea, buried the Soviet Union, figured out civil rights and how to go the moon, and bounced back from the 9/11 attacks, but a little conference at a local college is some huge threat. Give me a break.
At the end of the day, this is the United States and people get to have their say, intellectual fascism is not going to be allowed to stand, and really that is what it is that is behind this so-called protest against Brooklyn College. Nuts to that.
Feb. 2, 2013, 1:54 am
Judadspechal from bedstuy says:
well said Jay, & unfortunately these r the things that could be Israel's downfall. Hamas rocket, Israel can wipeout the entire Gaza , and West Bank in n instand we all know that.
On a trip to Ethiopia I met jewish(falasha) not sure of the spelling, who was airlift to Israel in the early 90's, said she had to leave Israel because of the unreal discrimination she encountered.
Also saw a Youtube video of an American Christian at some square in Israel preaching from the bible. To say he wasn't welcomed would be an understatement.
Feb. 2, 2013, 11:49 am
old time brooklyn from slope says:
hey instead of worrying about the me/jew/arabs why not give justice to the native americans whose land you are on and stole = give back thes usa and return the southwest to mexico which was stolen as well- oh thats right no jews involved

mazel tov
Feb. 2, 2013, 2:22 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, I tend to find what you said to be false. Minorities in Israel have the same rights as Jews unlike anyone is living in any other Mid Eastern nation that isn't a Muslim. As a person who has been to Israel, I have seen many synagogues, churches, mosques, monasteries, and even Bahain temples. Some of these aren't that common elsewhere in the Mid East. I won't argue about Jewish extremists, but they are still a small number. BTW, any party in the Knesset that wanted the Arab population either murdered or deported actually had their party banned from ever running again, and Wikipedia gives a whole list of those parties yet extremists are very much welcome in Palestinian parliament. If you want real discrimination, go to the rest of the region especially in countries such as Iran and Saudia Arabia where Sharia Law is in their actual laws. Also, gays are much more welcome in Israel than anywhere else in the region, and if the Palestinians, know you are gay, they would kill you, while in Saudia Arabia, you would get beheaded for such. As for using the claim that Israel is much more oppressive because of the numbers, many tend to fail to see what really went on, and that is the fact that Hamas has a history of placing their own people into harm's way by either using them as human shields or by placing bases into densely populated areas, which makes for good PR moves. If not for the iron domes recently placed, the impact from the qassam rockets would have been worse. I am surprised that nobody is talking about what is going on over in Syria, which is real oppression there compared to what is going on in Israel. Overall, I won't say that anyone who hates Israel is anti-Semetic per say, I will just say that they are pro-terrorist.
Feb. 2, 2013, 5:29 pm
ty from pps says:
Tal -- Your comparison is to Syria, Iran, etc? WHY?! Jesus. Think a little.

"Yeah, sure, I molest children... but my neighbors molest babies. What's the big deal?" This is the 'logic' you're using here.

Do you know why folks are disturbed and outraged when we discovered the U.S. military was engaging in torture? It wasn't because we were torturing *more* than other countries... it is because we were torturing... period.

If Israel is so wonderful, you would think it would be taking the ethical high ground, no? What the hell do the issues in Syria have to do with Israel's actions?
Feb. 2, 2013, 6:56 pm
jay from nyc says:
Ok at the risk of throwing up in my own mouth, I am agreeing with ty.....ugh.
Tal, you can say that you find what I say to be false because we have freedom in this country to do so, and that is really what this is all about.
What these fascists are trying to do at Brooklyn College is counter to that right, which has been protected with blood and the sacrifice of millions of Americans who served and secured that right.
I am sorry that you seem to think so little of it, as it is extremely precious and rare, but it is your right to feel this way. However I totally disagree with you on this and would give my life to defend that right.
Tal you may think that what I say is false, but then that means you also must think the U.S. State Department is lying, that all the other organizations that I listed are lying, and that basically everyone in the entire planet is lying, and Israel is the only one telling the truth and the whole truth. Now how likely is that?
You are free to think what you want, but your position is simply counter to the mountain of evidence that is freely accessible, and based on that, your position simply is not reasonable.
Your quip about parties being banned in the knesset is also incorrect, shall we have a discussion about the national unity party Tal?
Wanna talk about Kadima Tal? Or maybe we should just talk about actual law there?
I am glad you have been there, but so what, you think you are the only one? You think that no one else has eyes and ears and the ability to get on a plane and has done so?
While you were there (when was that by the way, 1978?) did you notice anything like the Nakba law in 2011? It allows for communities to be segregated by race. How is that for tolerance Tal? How about the law the denies family reunification for Arabs who are Israeli citizens Tal?
Please explain how that is such a shining example of a country concerned about basic rights that it won't even allow its own citizens to be with family members Tal?
How about the fact that Israels government agencies can not hire Arabs Tal, or how about Courts given much harsher sentences to non-jews than they do to jews committing the same crime Tal. Or how about another bill in 2011 that was narrowly defeated which would officially made Arabs second class citizens.
Tal, this is NOT a small minority of the country pushing these things, as you have tried to argue. Rather it is roughly half to slightly more than half of the county. tell me Tal which part of Isreal were you in, the gift shop at the Wailing Wall? I ask because you sure seemed to have missed a lot of the obvious while you were there.
As for your part on Syria and the rest of the middle east, yes all of those other countries are bad, and I agree with you on that. But the U.S. is not sending billions to prop up Assad, (Russia is though and you want to side with them? I still say better dead than red for a reason) but fact is we are sending billions to prop up Israel who are doing all kinds of things that would violate U.S. law and the U.S. constitution, and you have done nothing but dance around that fact, Why Tal?
What you think you are arguing is not actually arguing, but is actually a rhetoric technique called relativism. Its what the Chinese do when, every five years or so we dare utter a peep or two about the jacked up stuff they do, its intellectually dishonest and its a sham, and even Ty figured it out and called you out on it (no offense meant by that ty) Wrong is still wrong, by your argument/logic we should not have a black president because Iran cuts off peoples hands for stealing.
Finally Tal I find it extremely offensive that you say that anyone who is not pro Israeli is pro terrorist. Tal please tell me what have you done to counter terrorism? When did you serve in the military or in an intelligence agency or law enforcement? Oh I think the answer is never, so you then must be pro terrorist.
By your "argument" anyone who actually did serve and has issues with some of Israels policy is pro terrorist, despite having risked their life and made sacrifices to go after actual real terrorists. Nuts to that.
Tal I frequently enjoy reading your comments and the back and forth you bring to this board, even when I don't agree with you, and while I understand why you feel the need to defend Israel, but you really need to actually look up Israel law and see for yourself.
There are many many reasonable people who have done just that and come away with the inescapable conclusion that what Israel is doing is akin to Apartheid.
Maybe you will think differently, and thats cool, but do yourself a favor and at least learn about the law as written and practiced in Israel, you can do it next time you go.
Having said all of that, in this stupid long posting, none of which has a single thing to do with what this group of intellectual fascists are trying to do at Brooklyn College, and I would really rather hear/discuss comments about that issue.
So can we get back on topic here again Tal, please tell me why we should tear up the constitution and academic freedom in this country?
Feb. 2, 2013, 9:19 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:

so nu? no answer jsut chest puffing - the jews gave the world law and christ (and the Roman Catholic Church) - what have the arabs brought - rockum sockum terror - puleeez

mazel tov
Feb. 2, 2013, 10:04 pm
JAY from NYC says:
old time your post has nothing to do with the topic but among other things the numbers we use are from arabs, The Arabs brought algebra from ancient Babylon, Egypt and India to Europe via Italy. They took over and improved the Hindu number symbols and the idea of positional notation. These numerals (the Hindu-Arabic system of numeration) and the algorithms for operating with them were transmitted to Europe around 1200 and are in use throughout the world today. an arab named Al-Razi diagnosed smallpox and measles, and associated these diseases and others with human contamination and contagion, Al-Filahat by Ibn al-Awam, described more than five hundred different plants and methods of grafting, soil conditioning, and curing of diseased vines and trees, The Arab contributions to food production are legion. They were able to graft a single vine so that it would bear grapes in different colors, and their vineyards were responsible for the future of wine industries of Europe. Peach, apricot, and loquat trees were transplanted in southern Europe by Arab soldiers. The hardy olive was encouraged to grow in the sandy soil of Greece, Spain, and Sicily. From India they introduced the cultivation of sugar, and from Egypt they brought cotton to European markets.
al-Kindi, wrote on specific weight, tides, light reflection and optics.
The harp, lyre, zither, drum, tambourine, flute, oboe and reed instruments are today either exactly as they were used from earliest Arab civilization.
Had it not been for the Arab libraries, the centuries of Greek, Roman and Byzantine cultures and learning would have been lost to the Dark Ages.
Potters learned their glazing techniques from the Arabs. Arab-style gold tooling and colour panels can be found in Venice and Florence today.
It was the Arabs who, through their invention of the astrolabe, made it possible for the establishment of latitude and longitude, and to investigate the relative speeds of sound and light
Concerning Arab contributions to engineering, one can look to the water wheel, cisterns, irrigation, water wells at fixed levels and the water clock.
Hows that old time?
Feb. 3, 2013, 12:02 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, if that group wants to make their claim, they must show actual evidence, but the problem is much of that was found to be taken out of context or never proven. Israel didn't make the Gaza Strip into a concentration camp, Hamas did, and that was found to be a fact. Many pro-Palestinian groups have the tendency to spin around what is really happening or just continue to ride the myths despite how many times they have been debunked. For the record, I am not just a native of Israel, but I have been there numerous times and most definitely more than everyone here who just makes attacks from their own keyboard. The reason I said look at the other countries is because they show more evidence of oppression that what Israel does and much of it happens to be far worse. Where was the Human Rights Council on those countries? The answer is turning a blind eye just like how they do it whenever Hamas or Hezbollah does attack on Israel. Another thing is that you have probably never heard of the US Supreme Court case Shcenk vs US where it said that US Constitutional rights are not absolute. In other words, it's not freedom of speech to murder someone else, which is what Hamas is doing all the time, plus there have been times when slander wasn't protected either, and the those making the claims could be found blood libel if they can't back them up. Maybe they should be allowed and have pro-Israel supporters flood the events to bring numerous questions on where they came up with such claims, which will really put them in their place.
Feb. 3, 2013, 12:18 am
jay from nyc says:
how can the present actual evidence if they are not even allowed to speak Tal? And what you suggest about flooding the event really sounds more like disrupting the event and thuggery and in this country people who commit acts of thuggery go to jail.
Since you seem to want to be a pretend lawyer, what you are advocating is called a prior restraint, and pretty much there is no form of prior restraint that is legal according the Supreme Court of the Untied States, except one time in a single case involving the publishing of information on atomic weapons systems plans.
The goal of these so called protestors is to keep them from speaking at Brooklyn College. Why is that? What are they hiding? What are they trying to cover up? People can say what they want, but they can say nothing against the truth.
Nobody is turning a blind eye to Hamas or the PLO, and for you to argue that there are means you are either just lying or willfully ignorant, but people also have the right to hear what others are saying , because you know sometimes the "official story" really is a lie and unless we allow the "official story" to be challenged how is anyone ever supposed to know differently?
If people don't know the real facts then it makes it very very easy to manipulate them and get them to do things that otherwise they would never do.
People need to stop trying to shut people up. Wrong is still wrong.
Freedom of speech is not murder which is what Hamas is dong all the time? Huh? Ok Tal, did you read the article, Hamas is NOT coming to Brooklyn College, so your statement is just WRONG.
As for the Supreme Court case you cite, it was overturned close to 45 years ago, nice try at being a lawyer, but FAIL.
For those of you who don't know the case, it was from WW1, before we had antibiotics, and most people still used outhouses, and back when the Cubs were a good team, a guy got prosecuted under the espionage act for telling people to resist the draft.
As for why you would cite a 100 year old case that was over turned, and by you saying constitutional rights not being absolute, I can only surmise that you feel personally comfortable with a very small Jewish group telling others who are non-jewish what they can and can not listen to about a foreign country that NO American citizen owes ANY allegiance to.
Now how in the world can you justify that!!!???
Furthermore, only the Supreme Court of the UNITED STATES gets to decide what IS and IS NOT constitutional, not you, and not some stupid little group trying to shut people up, and NOT Israel, and the Supreme Court of the Untied States has made it clear that activities such as what Brooklyn College is doing at this event is well within protected speech and that people like this group who are trying to impose their fascist views on Brooklyn College have no valid legal argument.
But lets play with your idea and logic, if we did things by your way of thinking, Tal, What is to stop someone from forming their own little group and saying ummm no, jewish group, you can't have a synagogue anymore because constitutional rights are not absolute, according to Tal and according to this 100 year old case that was overturned and then using elected officials to try and enforce that? Now what the F does that remind you of?
Get it yet Tal?
This is NOT about Israel, its about intellectual fascist trying to tell people what they can and can not say and hear and think.

Feb. 3, 2013, 1:38 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, I am still waiting for proof that Israel is an apartheid country, but this group has done next to nothing to do so. The real oppressors to the Palestinian civilians are actually Hamas, because they rule over the Gaza Strip with an iron fist. I wasn't calling on pro-Israel groups to disrupt the event, just ask them serious question or call out what isn't true. I don't advocate for any forms of violence. Keep in mind that right now Israel is one of the biggest ally to the US, and currently the only true democracy in the Mid East. I wouldn't mind seeing the film Five Broken Cameras next week at the JCC of Manhattan and question the director on what that so-called non-violence group had never called out Hamas if they truly believe in non-violence, but are always shown going after the IDF quite constantly. BTW, Brooklyn College isn't the first to host something like this, a similar story was on Columbia University not that long ago, plus they even invited the Iranian president, who is clearly anti-Semetic and calls for Israel to wiped off the map with nuclear weapons that he goes on record for saying. On a side note, I do have family living in Israel, and I get concerned if the terrorist attacks will actually reach them. I could go on, but this link debunks all the myths on Israel, and the sources aren't biased the last time I checked, so take the time to read them for the real story.
Feb. 3, 2013, 11:22 am
JAY from NYC says:
again Tal what does any of that have to do with the event at Brooklyn College? Nothing, nada, nuca, zero zilch, and basically your position, and that of these so-called protestors, is to shut people up and keep them from saying things you don't like, before they even say anything, and that is NOT allowed in the U.S.
You have danced around and refused to address that, and why you think you or these so called protestors have the right to shut someone up and keep them from talking, which is the issue and point of the article, and instead tried to turn this into a debate of whether Israel are the good guys or not.
Furthermore when you are confronted with direct evidence from very highly credible sources, including actual Israeli law itself, that demonstrate that Israel is not such a great place, you dance around that and don't address that either, and instead talk about Syria. I am not even talking about Palestine, but I am talking about within Israel itself and how non-Jewish citizens get treated in Israel, and you don't address that at all. Why is that Tal, why do you refuse to talk about what Israel does to its own citizens, are you ignorant of it, or is it that you support such things?
As such, you really have no point to make other than you like Israel more than U.S. law and rights and that U.S. law should bend to pro-Isreal concerns. NUTs TO THAT!!
I think that we have come to the point of beating a dead horse here and its clear that you don't want to actually discuss the issue and that you advocate a position that is contrary to settled constitutional law.
Feb. 3, 2013, 11:49 am
jay from NYC says:
one final side point Tal, since you keep claiming that there is no evidence that Israel is lie Apartheid, before I go and stuff my American face with expensive American junk food, so I can watch Superbowl ads about rich American consumerism, do you actually know where and when the comparison of Israel to Apartheid comes from?
It actually comes from South Africa itself. Thats right, South Africa called Israel similar to South Africa's apartheid system, and they know more about it than you ever will Tal, and in fact I would submit that South Africa are probably the worlds leading experts on the subject.
Hendrik Verwoerd, the South African prime minister, said in 1961, at the U.N. said that "Israel is not consistent in its new anti-apartheid attitude... they took Israel away from the Arabs after the Arabs lived there for a thousand years. In that, I agree with them. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state."
Deal with that.
Feb. 3, 2013, 12:17 pm
jay from nyc says:
Tal here is an article published today about a poll just taken in Isreal. Link to it at
Text of article below

The new Israeli apartheid: Poll reveals widespread Jewish support for policy of discrimination against Arab minority

47 per cent of respondents would like to see Israel's Arab citizens stripped of their citizenship rights
Catrina Stewart Author Biography


Tuesday 23 October 2012
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Middle East

A new poll has revealed that a majority of Israeli Jews believe that the Jewish State practises "apartheid" against Palestinians, with many openly supporting discriminatory policies against the country's Arab citizens.

A third of respondents believe that Israel's Arab citizens should be denied the vote, while almost half – 47 per cent – would like to see them stripped of their citizenship rights and placed under Palestinian Authority control, according to Israel's liberal Haaretz newspaper, which published the poll's findings yesterday.

About 20 per cent of Israel's nearly eight million people are Israeli Arabs, Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenship and live within the borders of Israel proper. The views echo hardline opinions usually associated with Israel's ultranationalist and ultraorthodox parties, and suggest that racism and discrimination is more entrenched than generally thought.

The poll, conducted by Israel's Dialog polling group, found that 59 per cent out of the 503 people questioned would like to see Jews given preference for public-sector jobs, while half would like to see Jews better treated than Arabs.

Just over 40 per cent would like to see separate housing and classrooms for Jews and Arabs. The findings "reflect the widespread notion that Israel, as a Jewish State, should be a state that favours Jews," wrote Noam Sheizaf, an Israeli journalist and blogger. "They are also the result of the occupation … After almost half a century of dominating another people, it's no surprise that most Israelis don't think Arabs deserve the same rights."

Human rights groups have long decried existing Israeli policies that discriminate against Arabs, citing classroom shortages, smaller municipal budgets, and unequal property ownership rights as proof of Israeli Arabs' status as second-class citizens.

That many Jews believe that Israel has adopted "apartheid" policies is surprising, given that the term is usually deployed only by Israel's most vociferous critics, and suggests that the government-led narrative that the Jewish State is the only democracy in the Middle East is unconvincing to some.

But such self-awareness does not mean that Israelis are ashamed of it. Nearly 70 per cent of those questioned would object to the 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank obtaining the vote if Israel was to annex the Palestinian territory, suggesting that they effectively endorse an apartheid regime. Nearly 75 per cent favour separate roads there for Israelis and Palestinians – although most view such a step as "necessary," rather than "good." Although nearly 40 per cent support annexation, that remains a distant prospect for the moment.

The survey "lays bare an image of Israeli society, and the picture is a very, very sick one", wrote Gideon Levy in Haaretz in a piece to accompany the poll. "Now it is not just critics at home and abroad, but Israelis themselves who are openly, shamelessly, and guiltlessly defining themselves as nationalistic racists.

"If such a survey were released about the attitude to Jews in a European state, Israel would have raised hell. When it comes to us, the rules don't apply."

In the three years since Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing Likud party took control of the Knesset in an uneasy coalition with religious and ultranationalist parties, rights groups have charted a shift to the right that has accompanied a stalemate in efforts to find a solution to the long-running Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Many now see the two-state solution, even though publicly backed by Mr Netanyahu at the outset of his term, as an increasingly distant prospect, given the expansion of Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem – territories that along with Gaza the Palestinians want as their future state. That leaves the prospect of a one-state solution, an outcome favoured by some Palestinians, but anathema to Israel as it would threaten the country's Jewish majority.

Many Israelis also fear such an eventuality because it would undermine the Jewish State's democratic values if it were forced to adopt discriminatory policies to retain its Jewish character.

59% want preference in public jobs for Jews over Arabs

49% want the state to treat Jews better than Arabs

33% object to Israeli Arabs having the right to vote

69% object to giving Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank

74% support separate roads for Jews and Palestinians in the West Bank

42% object to their children going to the same schools as Arabs
Feb. 3, 2013, 12:56 pm
jay from nyc says:
here is more evidence Tal, see below
Unequal funding for Arab education,
spending for jewish students is more than double for arabl students
There are separate and inferior school systems for Arabs inside Israel. In 2001, Human Rights Watch reported that one in four of Israel's 1.6 million schoolchildren is educated in a completely separate public school system. The report stated that "Palestinian Arab children attend schools with larger classes and fewer teachers than do those in the Jewish school system, with some children having to travel long distances to reach the nearest school. Arab schools also contrast dramatically with the larger system in their frequent lack of basic learning facilities like libraries, computers, science laboratories, and even recreation space… The educational system has given a low priority to teacher training for the Arab school system… Palestinian Arab teachers on average have lower qualifications and receive lower salaries than non-Palestinian Arab teachers

and this Tal,
Arab history, Israel's borders removed from public school textbooks
Teachers are not allowed to teach students in public schools about the Arab history in the region. Israeli textbooks do not show the "Green Line" or the internationally recognized border between Israel and the occupied territories. They refer to the West Bank as "Judea and Samaria." "Teachers for the Arab schools are approved by the state security service, the Shin Bet, and the curriculum is designed to remove references to Palestinian history and culture…. The Shin Bet prohibits even great Arab and Palestinian literature from inclusion in the curriculum"

and this
Unequal funding for Arab towns
Arab towns and villages in Israel do not receive the same funding as Jewish towns, even though taxation rates are equal for Arabs and Jews. Israel has a system of progressive taxation, with wealthier individuals paying more than those with low incomes. Under such a system, poorer communities are supposed to be helped by the higher taxes paid in wealthier ones, but this is not the case when it comes to Arab neighborhoods in Israel According to a report by the US State Department, Government spending was proportionally lower in predominantly Arab areas than in Jewish areas, which adversely affected children in Arab villages and cities.

and this
According to Israeli journalist Ori Nir, "Between 1975 and 2000, only 0.3 percent of public construction initiated and subsidized by the Israeli government was for Arabs." In the years 2000 -- 2004,Arab citizens received less than 5% of the overall Regular Budget of Israel. In 2005, less than 3% of the Development Budget was allocated to the Arab communities.

and this
Plans to "Judaize" the Arab areas of the Galilee
The area of the Galilee in northern Israel is where many Israeli Arabs live. Some are descended from the earliest Christians, while others are Muslim. In September, 2001, the Israeli Government's Northern District Committee for Planning and Building issued a plan to "Judaize" the Galilee region, citing the presence of Arabs in that region as a problem. The plan restricts the development of industrial, commercial and development areas in Arab villages, and places industrial, commercial and tourism facilities in or near Jewish areas.

and this
Restricted access to good jobs for Arabs
Service in the Israeli army is a prerequisite for the best private and public sector jobs in Israel. Most non-Jews other than Druze are not allowed to serve in the army so these jobs are not often available to Israeli Arabs. Arabs are thus denied the benefits that come from these jobs and from army service. However, religious Jews who do not serve in the army face no such discrimination and receive all benefits and opportunities accrued to those in army service.

and this
Government leaders talk openly of expelling Arabs from Israel.
Christians have lived in the land that became Israel for 2000 years, Muslims for more than 1300 years. Now these citizens are referred to as a demographic threat, or "the Arab Problem." The most offensive of these is Avigdor Lieberman, recently appointed to a key cabinet post by Ehud Olmert. When the first Arab minister was appointed to the government recently, Lieberman called on Defense Minister Amir Peretz to resign. Another official said "This is assimilation…I call on the prime minister not to approve this appointment to protect the state of Israel's interest as a Jewish and Zionist state." Lieberman said that Israel's Arab minority was a "problem" which required "separation," declaring that Israel must redraw its map to "exchange" part of the Arab population, in order to create a more "homogeneous Jewish state." Almost a third of Israel's Jewish citizens favor transferring Arabs out of Israel, and 60% think they should be encouraged to leave.

and this
Ninety-three per cent of the land in Israel is owned either by the state or by quasi-governmental agencies (such as the Jewish National Fund) that discriminate against non-Jews. Palestinian citizens of Israel face significant legal obstacles in gaining access to this land for agriculture, residence, or commercial development

and this
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel and the spiritual leader of Shas, the third largest party in Israel's Knesset, said that "most people know the Arabs are snakes...and snakes should be dealt with like snakes." (Maariv, 7/12/2001)

and this
Knesset member and former Minister Efraim Eitam called the Palestinian citizens of Israel "a ticking time bomb" and said that they "resemble a cancerous growth - We shall have to consider the ability of the Israeli democracy to continue the Arabs' participation." (Haaretz, 3/22/2002)

and this
South African law professor and former United Nations Special Rapporteur for Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) John Dugard said to the UN General Assembly that "Israel's conduct in the OPT poses the same kind of challenge to the credibility of international human rights that apartheid did in the 1970's and 1980's. There are gross, egregious and systematic violations of human rights and international humanitarian law in the OPT, committed not by undisciplined and uncontrolled militias but by one of the most disciplined and sophisticated armies in the modern world, directed by a stable and disciplined government."

and this
In 2009 South Africa's statutory research agency the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) published a report stating that "the State of Israel exercises control in the [Occupied Palestinian Territories] with the purpose of maintaining a system of domination by Jews over Palestinians and that this system constitutes a breach of the prohibition of apartheid.

and this
United Nations Special Rapporteur for Palestine Richard A. Falk reported in March 2011, "The continued pattern of settlement expansion in East Jerusalem combined with the forcible eviction of long-residing Palestinians is creating an intolerable situation ... [and] can only be described in its cumulative impact as a form of ethnic cleansing."

and this
Political writer Ronald Bruce St John states with the 2002 introduction of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court "the emphasis shifts to an identifiable national, ethnic or cultural group, as opposed to a racial group," in which case "Israeli policy in the West Bank clearly constitutes a form of apartheid with an effect on the Palestinian people much the same as apartheid had on the non-White population in South Africa."

and this
Jacobus Johannes Fouché, South African Minister of Defence during the apartheid era, compared the two states and said that Israel also practiced apartheid

and this
On 21 April 2010, the South African government expressed "the greatest concern" over Israeli Infiltration Order 1650, saying that the order has a broad definition of "infiltrator" and unclear terms as to which permits would allow a person to reside in the West Bank, as well as how valid residency might be proven. The South African government said the terms of the order are "reminiscent of pass laws under apartheid South Africa"

and this
In 2002 Anglican Archbishop and Nobel Peace Prize winner Desmond Tutu wrote a series of articles in major newspapers comparing the Israeli occupation of the West Bank to apartheid South Africa, and calling for the international community to divest support from Israel until the territories were no longer occupied.

and this
On 6 June 2008, Mr. Kgalema Motlanthe, the Deputy President of South Africa and of the African National Congress, who had recently visited the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip, told a delegation of Arab Knesset members visiting South Africa to study its democratic constitution that conditions for Palestinians under occupation were "worse than conditions were for Blacks under the Apartheid regime

and this
In May 2009, The Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa released a legal study, subsequently published in 2012 as Beyond Occupation: Apartheid, Colonialism and International Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, finding that Israel is practicing both colonialism and apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories, according to the definition of apartheid provided by the International Convention for the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. Further, Israel's practices could be grouped into three "pillars" of apartheid comparable to practices in South Africa:

The first pillar "derives from Israeli laws and policies that establish Jewish identity for purposes of law and afford a preferential legal status and material benefits to Jews over non-Jews".

The second pillar is reflected in "Israel's 'grand' policy to fragment the OPT [and] ensure that Palestinians remain confined to the reserves designated for them while Israeli Jews are prohibited from entering those reserves but enjoy freedom of movement throughout the rest of the Palestinian territory. This policy is evidenced by Israel's extensive appropriation of Palestinian land, which continues to shrink the territorial space available to Palestinians; the hermetic closure and isolation of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the OPT; the deliberate severing of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank; and the appropriation and construction policies serving to carve up the West Bank into an intricate and well-serviced network of connected settlements for Jewish-Israelis and an archipelago of besieged and non-contiguous enclaves for Palestinians".

The third pillar is "Israel's invocation of 'security' to validate sweeping restrictions on Palestinian freedom of opinion, expression, assembly, association and movement [to] mask a true underlying intent to suppress dissent to its system of domination and thereby maintain control over Palestinians as a group."

and this
According to former Italian Prime Minister Massimo d'Alema, former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had described to him "at length" that he felt the "bantustan model" was the most appropriate solution to the conflict in the West Bank.[205] The term “Bantustan” historically refers to the separate territorial areas designated as homelands under the South African apartheid State. Adam and Moodley explain that Israeli officials such as Sharon and Ehud Barak used the analogy "self-servingly in their exhortations and rationalizations" and that they have repeatedly deplored the occupation and seeming 'South Africanization', yet "have done everything to entrench it"

and this
Shulamit Aloni, who served as Minister for Education under Yitzhak Rabin, discussed Israeli practices in the West Bank in an article published in the Israeli daily Yediot Acharonot. Aloni wrote that "Jewish self-righteousness is taken for granted among ourselves to such an extent that we fail to see what’s right in front of our eyes. It’s simply inconceivable that the ultimate victims, the Jews, can carry out evil deeds. Nevertheless, the state of Israel practices its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population. The US Jewish Establishment’s onslaught on former President Jimmy Carter is based on him daring to tell the truth which is known to all: through its army, the government of Israel practices a brutal form of Apartheid in the territory it occupies."

and this
Yossi Sarid, who served as environment minister under Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres, writing in Haaretz stated that "the white Afrikaners, too, had reasons for their segregation policy; they, too, felt threatened — a great evil was at their door, and they were frightened, out to defend themselves. Unfortunately, however, all good reasons for apartheid are bad reasons; apartheid always has a reason, and it never has a justification. And what acts like apartheid, is run like apartheid and harasses like apartheid, is not a duck - it is apartheid."

and this
A major 2002 study of Israeli settlement practices by the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem concluded: "Israel has created in the Occupied Territories a regime of separation based on discrimination, applying two separate systems of law in the same area and basing the rights of individuals on their nationality. This regime is the only one of its kind in the world, and is reminiscent of distasteful regimes from the past, such as the apartheid regime in South Africa." A more recent B'Tselem publication on the road system Israel has established in the West Bank concluded that it "bears striking similarities to the racist Apartheid regime," and even "entails a greater degree of arbitrariness than was the case with the regime that existed in South Africa."

and this
Retired Israeli judge and legal commentator for the daily Yedioth Ahronoth Boaz Okon wrote in June 2010 that events in Israel, when taken together, constituted apartheid and fascism. Okon used as examples segregated schools and streets, a "minute" proportion of Israeli Arabs employed in the civil service, censorship, limits on foreign workers having children in Israel and the monitoring of cell phones, email and Internet usage

and this
Ehud Olmert, then Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, commented in April 2004 that; "More and more Palestinians are uninterested in a negotiated, two-state solution, because they want to change the essence of the conflict from an Algerian paradigm to a South African one. From a struggle against 'occupation,' in their parlance, to a struggle for one man, one vote. That is, of course, a much cleaner struggle, a much more popular struggle – and ultimately a much more powerful one. For us, it would mean the end of the Jewish state."[293] Olmert made a similar remark in November 2007 as Prime Minister: "If the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then the State of Israel is finished."

but again Tal what does any of this have to do with the U.S. Constitution and academic freedom? Nothing, and since you refuse to discuss that which was the topic of the article, we are done now.
Feb. 3, 2013, 1:33 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, I find an irony that you claim I am not discussing the topic, but you as well are going around the issue yourself. In Israel, cultural diversity is accepted. How come Israel has religious institutions of all kinds, but in the Muslim countries, it's mostly mosques? I have hardly seen any monasteries or Bahain temples elsewhere in the region, but many of them are in Israel. If Israel was really an apartheid state, then many would be forced to live where they are now when it's really a choice. As for the Bedouins, their homes were only demolished in the Negev Desert because they didn't own the land, and they are allowed to file for permits, which they don't bother to do so either because they feel that they don't want to or they feel it's too much work for them. I take it you didn't even bother to click that link, because it debunks all the claims against Israel both past and present. Talking about this group going to Brooklyn College, I will let them be there, but they will have to face the criticism especially if it's coming from the pro-Israel crowd. I find it ironic that it's okay for a group to dish criticism but not able to take it when it comes to them. One other thing, both Hamas and Fatah call the death of all Jews on both of their charters, and they even use quotes from Adolf Hitler himself, who they view as a major hero to them in that they wish to finish what he started.
Feb. 3, 2013, 2:22 pm
ty from pps says:
"Talking about this group going to Brooklyn College, I will let them be there..."

THANK GOD! Tal said it's OK.
Feb. 3, 2013, 2:36 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, please read that entire sentence, not just part of it, because I did say that they will accept any criticisms being thrown up, not just be allowed to say whatever they want without having any debates.
Feb. 3, 2013, 3:17 pm
ty from pps says:
Tal -- I read the whole sentence. I'm glad you have decided to endorse this event.
Feb. 3, 2013, 3:44 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
I am not endorsing the event, I just want them to be called out by the audience so that they can be put in their place for trying to repeat the same anti-Israel myths they keep mentioning.
Feb. 3, 2013, 4:50 pm
ty from pps says:
So, Tal... I'm assuming you're waiting to move to Israel until you're old enough to fully avoid national service, right?
Feb. 3, 2013, 5:04 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Ty, I am just tired of all of these repeated myths that the anti-Israel crowd keeps claiming, but doesn't even bother to find actual evidence on. Just saying that Palestine was an independent nation before the Israeli War of Independence alone is a total lie, because between the Romans and British, Palestine, which was actually given the name by the Romans, was never its own country but under a series of empires, so they never had their own country, and the closest was just a puppet government that was subordinate to that ruling empire. Another commonly repeated myth is the claim that Jerusalem is a holy city to the Muslims and that Mohammed rose to heaven there, when not only the Koran never stated that, but there was never any proof that Mohammed ever reached Jerusalem let alone left the Arabian Peninsula as historians have traced his routes. What really bothers me is that this group keeps shouting about how they claim Israel mistreats the Palestinians, but doesn't even speak about how their own autonomy in both the West Bank and Gaza Strip is doing that, not to mention always throwing them into harm's way. Keep in mind that a number of these group have a history of trying to fund Hamas through shadowy organizations like the International Solidarity Movement, who has not just been known for funding Hamas, but was also known for hiding some of the terrorists in their offices back in Israel. Last time I checked, aiding any terrorist groups is a crime against all international laws. Seriously, if there really are those who preach non-violence or happen to be moderate on this very conflict, then I would like to see them using it to stop Hamas from doing any further attacks where it should belong, otherwise they are nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Feb. 3, 2013, 5:43 pm
ty from pps says:
So, you're not moving to Israel?
Feb. 3, 2013, 6:45 pm
Jim from Cobble Hill says:
Anything that gets that hateful Dov Hikind's panties in a bunch is a good thing.
Feb. 3, 2013, 11:18 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jim, I take it that you support the terrorist actions by Hamas by saying this.
Feb. 4, 2013, 2:02 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
still no outrage about native americans whose truly stolen land your white rear ends are sitting on ad lest us not forget the one third of Mexico we took =- but wow mention the jews and people who have not written so much sinnce university can go on and on and on - a jew hater by any other name is a jew hater.

and israel is not a democracy but rather the only humane theocacy in the region.

mazel tov
Feb. 4, 2013, 2:43 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
still no outrage about native americans whose truly stolen land your white rear ends are sitting on ad lest us not forget the one third of Mexico we took =- but wow mention the jews and people who have not written so much sinnce university can go on and on and on - a jew hater by any other name is a jew hater.

and israel is not a democracy but rather the only humane theocacy in the region.

mazel tov
Feb. 4, 2013, 2:43 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
still no outrage about native americans whose truly stolen land your white rear ends are sitting on ad lest us not forget the one third of Mexico we took =- but wow mention the jews and people who have not written so much sinnce university can go on and on and on - a jew hater by any other name is a jew hater.

and israel is not a democracy but rather the only humane theocacy in the region.

mazel tov
Feb. 4, 2013, 2:43 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
still no outrage about native americans whose truly stolen land your white rear ends are sitting on ad lest us not forget the one third of Mexico we took =- but wow mention the jews and people who have not written so much sinnce university can go on and on and on - a jew hater by any other name is a jew hater.

and israel is not a democracy but rather the only humane theocacy in the region.

mazel tov
Feb. 4, 2013, 2:44 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
How exactly was the land stolen from the Palestinians when there were always Jews living there for centuries? Some are ignorant to think that it wasn't until the Balfour Declaration of 1917 or just after WWII that Jews were finally living there when that has been proven to be false. Historically, Jerusalem has always been predominately Jewish and still is today. If any have seen the film, The Forgotten Refugees, you will find that there have been more Jews that fled to Israel than Palestinians left it, and the Jews that left were actually forced to leave just about everything they had behind when that was never the case for the Palestinians. Also, in the rest of the region, numerous synagogues, churches, and other religious institutions have been desecrated while any religious place in Israel that is not Jewish is still preserved and used by those groups. Still, there has never been any proof that Zionists forced the Palestinians to leave when many had left without ever seeing ever chasing them. The Arab nations were no help to them because all they did was place them into refugee camps, and never bothered to have contact with them only to be seen as pawns. One other thing, the Jews living throughout the region were actually treated as second class citizens and attacks at them by Muslims were usually justified, plus it was crime for them to fight back. Once again, what is this Palestinian nation some here speak off when it never existed, but was just under a series of ruling empires between the Romans and the British, and why wasn't it called occupied Palestine then but only now?
Feb. 4, 2013, 3:44 pm
jay from nyc says:
Tal, History VERY CLEARY shows Muslims were the majority of the population in Jerusalem until 1880, so you are WRONG WRONG WRONG about that.
Next, How did Palestinians have land stolen? That is easy, because they were living on the land, that land was NOT vacant, they had clear legal title to it, they had clear legal ownership of it, and they had clear legal possession of it, and they were forced out, or massacred by Jewish militants, or placed in fear of being massacred by Jewish militants.
That is what the entire right of return argument is about. DUHHHHHH.
Its not the name of the country that matters, as you assert, what matters is people owned that land, they had clear title to it and they were forced off it by people committing war crimes, and they have never been compensated for the loss of the land. and there is TONS and TONS of proof that it DID happen and its NOT in doubt at all.
So you are just a denier of history.
As for why it was not called occupied Palestine before, there are a number of reasons, chief among them being that they were integrated and under the control of a government, DUH. But that DOES NOT change the fact that people legally lived there and had clear legal title ownership and possession of the land.
Beyond that, first and foremost being that Isreal currently sits on land taken illegally in violation of the very mandate that created Israel. Second, its called occupied because Israel controls all international access. Third its called occupied because the land on which the Palestine are on is so crummy that it does not have enough water to support life and water has to be trucked in from other countries, and it also is so poor that it can not grow enough food to support the population. fourth, its called that because some in Israel argue for a two state solution, rather than making the Palestinians full citizens of Israel and giving them the right to vote and they do so because explicitly because of race.
Fifth its called that because its under a block-aid which is considered an act of war by all nations of the world.
As for your complaint that you "are tired of the anti-Isreal crowd", who are you referring to and what lies are you pointing to?
The people at Brooklyn College have not even talked yet so how can you claim to know anything about them, what are you a freaking mind reader Tal?
Or are you just being a plain old racist and bigot by lumping everyone into one big class of people that you think should be shut up by the force of law?
Who is lying Tal, the multiple noble peace prize winners who claim Israel is like Apartheid? The members and former members of Israels government who also say the same thing? Israeli papers who say it? Tell me Tal who is lying, name names and then please say how they have ANYTHING to do with the event at Brooklyn College.
Another thing Tal, you do NOT get to decide who gets to speak. You are going to "allow it"? WTF?
Where in the world do you think you have the authority to decide who speaks at a university? Who do you think you are that you get to decide who can exercise their constitutional rights and who can not?
Feb. 4, 2013, 6:24 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, first of all, Palestine was NEVER an independent nation prior to the Israeli War of Independence, it was always under a series of empires. It wasn't even independent during WWII, just under a British Mandate. BTW, it was the UN that decided to partition it, not the Zionists, but they decided to go with it. Keep in mind that it was the Palestinians who started the very war by attacking a cease fire line, not the Zionists, and losing land is the result of a war. Right now, the Knesset is willing to give both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to full Palestinian control on the count that they will cease from all terrorist attacks first especially because they do NOT want to see any Jewish state. I take it you have never heard of the Mizarachi Jews, which are the Jews that have always been living in the Mid East for centuries. About a month ago, I remembered reading on the Daily News that the Palestinians are being fed by the IDF, so they are not being starved at all, and a lot of this was during the time they were being attacked by Hamas. The two state solution goes all the way back to the partition plan that the Palestinians didn't originally accept and chose to go to war instead. Any Arabs that stayed in Israel after that war became citizens and are welcomed into the population with open arms and the same rights that not only lets them vote in Israeli elections, but let's them run for political office as well. The only reason why there is a blockade at the Gaza Strip is because there have been groups that have been giving Hamas military aide, and last time I checked, it was against ALL international laws to harbor terrorists. Even when those on the flotilla came to break through that blockade, the Geneva Convention ruled that Israel did NOT break any laws on international waters and acted well within their means, plus there was video evidence that the people on the flotilla were given numerous warnings to turn around or be boarded and they even hit the soldiers with clubs before they even drew their guns. On other thing, I suggest you read the Oslo Agreement that was agreed on back in 1993 by then PM Yitzhak Rabin and then PA Chairman Yassir Arafat that said the PA has full responsibility over the Palestinians in the disputed territories, while the Knesset provides the funding, so whatever is going on in those lands is because of the PA, not the Knesset. Before you say bad land, you do know that there are no Israelis or Jews living in the Gaza Strip, so the settlements there are now theirs', but Hamas chose to turn paradise into purgatory by making them new launching pads for rockets instead rather than just use to help their way of life instead. As for Brooklyn College, I will only let that group go there if and only if they will be open for debates and criticism to their views especially if it means putting them in their places or giving them tough love. If they can't take the heat, then they might as well stay out of the kitchen. Still, read that link I gave the other day, and it will tell you what is really going on.
Feb. 4, 2013, 8:17 pm
old time brooklyn from slope says:
well where is the outrage - the usual l pissing match with rag heads an Jew haters p-
Feb. 4, 2013, 8:27 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
If anyone is wondering why the land where the Jews live seem better than the Arabs is because they Jews were better at farming techniques that the Arabs weren't. The Jews had something known as a reclaim method in which they turned a land that was nothing but a barren wasteland into arable land for growing crops there. I find it interesting that when Israel took the Golan Heights during the Six Day War, it was hardly even livable, but they turned it into paradise thanks to their methods. If any group in the Mid East knows how to make the desert bloom when all hope is lost, it's the Jews. Perhaps, if the Arabs learned how to farm like that, they would have been able to revive what was once known as the Fertile Crescent that was lost during ancient time to desertification or even greater. Again, where the settlements were, the Palestinians could have used them to help make their life there when it was just being handed over to them, but decided to destroy all of that instead.
Feb. 4, 2013, 9:06 pm
jay from nyc says:
Tal you are 1,000,000 per cent wrong, and you clearly do NOT know about history, law, military, or anything other than nonsense.
Palestine was the name given to the area by the Romans, as an insult to the jews, on top of the more than 100,000 jews the Romans killed. It is a geographic name, much like you would be referred to as a bridge and tunnel upstate-er.
The name stuck because well, alot, of things the Romans made or did stuck around for a long time, and that are has been known as Palestine as a geographic area for a really really long time.
It stopped being known as a country named Israel, (and it was known as Palestine alot longer than the name of Isreal), much like Burma became known as Myanmar or how Rhodesia ceased to exist, or Siam.
To put it in dumb-dumb terms, the Mississippi river valley is a pretty well known and recognized area of land, and it is also part of the United States, if the U.S. ceased to exists and new government ruled over that area, it would still most likely be known as the Mississippi River Valley, unless of course it was re-named. Its the same thing with Palestine.
The Romans named it Palestine as such and it stayed that way until 1948. This is pretty basic stuff and not complicated.
Again, read what I said, it does not matter who was ruling the area, people lived there under different rulers yes, but they WERE living there and the area was called Palestine for something like 2000 years.
At the time of the mandate, you had a lot of people living there who owned homes, shops, farms etc, just like anywhere else, and they had title, possession, and legal valid claim to that land. It was legally theirs, just like your house is legally yours (if you own a house anyway)
Since you don't seem to understand property law, I will give you a brief breakdown on the subject. All governments have some form of dealing with landownership. In some countries the government/ruler/dictator, etc owns all the land, in other countries much land is in private hands while the government owns some of it, some countries allow for foreign ownership, others do not.
In ancient Scotland sometimes land would be held by coir a glaive, or "by right of the sword".
The point being that however land was held by a person, corporation, government entity, etc, that land is held legally by its lawful owner, and they have rights to that land and in most (but not all land systems) are able to sell the land, and can only have it taken away from them by whatever lawful means prevails in that country. In many countries (not all) you can generally not have your land taken away from you with out being paid for it.
In Britain, the Crown is the ultimate owner of all land in England and Wales (including the Isles of Scilly): all other owners hold an estate in land. Although there is some land that the Crown has never granted away, most land is held of the Crown as freehold or leasehold.
In the area known as Palestine, before the U.N. mandate there, there were alot of people living there who owned land. When the mandate came down 700,000 of them were forced off their privately owned land which they had clear and legal title to, their privately owned land was taken and there has never been any compensation given for that. That is an undisputed fact Tal.
A few other facts, the league of nations actually had recognized Palestine as an independent nation, not that it was worth much, but it does illustrate the reality that people lived there and owned that land and that ownership was legally recognized.
It is also worth noting that when the mandate was passed, Britan refused to enforce it as soon as they learned that the majority of the population in the area at that time (arabs) rejected it.
The British were not good at getting out of their colonies, lets face it, we fought two wars with them. they totally screwed up partition with India and Pakistan which haunts those countries to this day, and Iran was a real big failure.
And oh yes, Arabs were 88% of the population in 1922, by 1945, due to massive illegal jewish immigration, the arab population was about 61%, still by far the majority of people living there though.
In 1945 Arabs owned 42% of the land in Hafia, and 87% in Acre and 44% in Beisen, 52% in Nazareth, 68% in Safad, 51% in Tiberias, 44% in Jaffa, 96% in Hebron, and 84% in Jerusalem.
The point of all this is Tal is that the Arabs owned that land privately and legally and had it taken from them and this is not in question.
The only people who question this are people like "the Case for Israel" people who try to re-write history the same way storm front tries to argue the Holocaust never happened.
As for the rest of your drivel, and yes it is drivel, and yes I am pointing the finger at you Tal, as for the Knesset giving the west bank and gaza up, well big freaking deal, they don't control it anyway, so what are they giving up? NOTHING.
Furthermore, that land is NOT capable of supporting the population, it does not have enough arable land and it does not have enough water and this part of things is part of the perverse relationship with Israel that they are dependent on Israel not closing checkpoints so that food and water and medicine can get though so that the population literally does not starve to death. Yes, being fed by the IDF, just like prisoners in jail Tal.
And no its not that way because the arabs are shooting rockets at the jews, and they turned paradise into hell, its that way because its crap land.
Do I need to educate you on soil quality and aquifers and what not as well Tal?
Is there anything you do know so that I can just go ahead and skip that part and focus on the billion things you don't seem to know?
IN addition, the Knesset would love this deal of yours Tal because then they won't have to make any payments to the people who were forced off their land. This would be a HORRIBLE deal and NO ONE would take it.
At the very least Israel could offer a payment to landowners who were forced out at current fair market values as part of a way to settle this, but they won't, because they would have to borrow it from the U.S.A. and there is no way this country is going to pay for that.
Of course the Arabs did not agree to a two state deal, in 48 why would they want to give up their land and have to move like in India with partition, even the British backed out of the mandate because they realized that it would not work and did not have legitimacy.
And truth be told Tal, it was the Jews who started the war with their terror campaign against the British, but you don't want to talk about that now do you Tal because the at would offend your false version of history.
You don't want to talk about how jews literally captured and tortured British do you Tal? Or the Bombing of the King David Motel which killed 92? Tal where are you on terrorism again?
I read your link by the way since you keep hopping up and down about it, and its non-scholarly crapola that would not pass a 7th grade reading level. FAIL, F- for you.
Again though, as always, what does any of this have to do with Brooklyn College.? Why do you refuse, REFUSE to answer this question Tal?
I asked you what lies, and who is lying, and how are they connected to Brooklyn College, and you did not answer, why?
There simply is no reasoning with you apparently. Are you just being a racist Tal? You did not answer how these people at Brooklyn College are connected to Hamas as you implied, why is that Tal?
Tal, When one intentionally omits answering a direct question people draw inferences from that failure to answer.
Again Tal you have no say over what anyone else says in this country.
You don't decide jack, and there are about 40,000 cops with guns in this city who will enforce the law so that the event at Brooklyn College goes at planned, but by all means keep thinking that you are the ruler of the country and you decide who says what and under what conditions, and that you will "put them in their place" like a thug, right up till the time you get tossed in jail for a hate crime.
Feb. 4, 2013, 10:26 pm
jay from nyc says:
ok tal the fertile cresent is in Iraq, not Palestine so apparently you don't even know the major land features of the area.
Feb. 4, 2013, 10:27 pm
Bob from WT says:
Q: how many "Palestinians" does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: None! They just sit in the dark and blame the Jews!
Feb. 4, 2013, 11:08 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Jay, these so-called Palestinians lived as individuals, but NEVER as a nation. The most they got was a puppet government that was subordinate to the empires that were ruling them. To quote Dennis Miller, he said this, "Palestine is nothing more than a Never-Never Land." If the Palestinians should deserve a right turn, then the same should be for the Jews who were forced out of their homes throughout the region, but I don't see that happening. The only people who treat the general Palestinians as prisoners are the terrorists themselves that includes both Hamas [Gaza Strip] and Fatah [West Bank]. The partition by the UN was done in response to the disputes between the two. The Jews despite not happy with how the partition went accepted what they got as long as they got any land, but the Arabs didn't want to see the Jews having any land and declared the very war. Some of their attacks against the Jews go back to as early as 1929 when Jews passing by a mosque just outside of Tel Aviv by the Jaffa line were being lynched constantly. What I find interesting is that Jewish extremists are actually condemned and arrested by their own kind whenever they do such acts towards the Palestinians or other Arabs, but when Palestinians or other Arabs do such acts towards Jews, they are actually applauded by their own kind, and are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist or a house arrest that they won't even enforce. May I ask who is condoning such acts right now? Many of the terrorists even get places named after them. As for education, the Jewish schools acknowledge all of the famous Muslim scholars and intellectuals when Palestinian schools teach children that Jews are evil and must be killed. Also, both Hamas and Fatah have charters that call for the destruction of Jewish state in that it must never be accepted. Nevertheless, I said I will allow for that group to be at Brooklyn College, but they have to accept any kind of criticism and question, and I never once said anything about trying to murder them or even be disorderly in that matter. Why should a group be allowed to criticize how others act, but can't be criticized back? Isn't that the nature of a debate? If any speakers have faced attacks in the past when doing presentations, it was usually the pro-Israel side yet the anti-Israel side should be allowed to say whatever they want without every having to face the opposition. On a side note, Israel and Jordan were the western half of the Fertile Crescent, while Iraq and Kuwait were the eastern half, plus Mesopotamia was just part of it, not all of it.
Feb. 4, 2013, 11:49 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Since you brought up the King David Hotel bombing, here is what really happened. About a half an hour before, the group known as Irgun gave a warning to those in the hotel about it clear. The British realized that there was a warning sent to them, but didn't seem to know about it until five months later. BTW, such action was never condoned by the Zionists, but condemned instead. I will not deny that the were terrorists on their side, but none of them exist today. However, there have been numerous attacks by the Arabs on them since 1920, and they believed that only with violence can their problem be solved rather than just talking with them. BTW, the earliest part of the conflict goes back to 1878 when Jews bought up land from the Ottoman Empire to establish the colony of Petah Tikvah. Even when I look at Wikipedia for that very war, it still says that it was started by the Palestinians just shortly after the voting of the Partition Plan, and the link doesn't lie. Also, there is another link on Wikipedia that actually claims what really happened during the so-called plight of the Palestinians in that it was really to make a PR campaign.
Feb. 5, 2013, 12:21 am
ty from pps says:
I've stayed at the King David Hotel. It's quite nice. They also have shabbath goyim on staff in case you want your toilet flushed or a light turned on. There were no bombings during my stay.
Feb. 5, 2013, 8:14 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
My point on the King David Hotel bombing was that there hasn't been any Jewish terrorist groups since the independence of Israel. Also, many of those that did the attacks like what Irgun did, were never supported by the Zionists especially by David Ben-Gurion, who became the first PM. However, there are still Palestinian and Arab terrorist groups that exist today such as Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, and even Al Qaeda, and that's what I am talking about now. Even back in the 1920's, Arab extremists were attacking the Jews with violence, and their acts were supported greatly. Getting back to Brooklyn College, it's part of the CCNY system in which it's publicly funded. Therefore, city officials can have a say in that as can the taxpayers. If the BDS wants to go somewhere and feel unhindered, they can always use a college that happens to be private. BTW, the support for Israel is very big with both city and state politicians here making NY the most pro-Israel state known in this country. If that group is really about boycotting countries due to oppression, then the list is long, but I doubt that they will go there since they are only concerned about Israel, making it very selective while ignoring the countries that do far worse and have more evidence of such acts.
Feb. 5, 2013, 5:15 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Just to get this off of my chest, if you are really to boycott anything made in Israel because of that so-called apartheid, which I still find to be false, then you will have give up all the technological and medical advances that come with it. For the last two decades all of those advances actually come from Israel. You can probably stop using Instant Messenger or even Skype. Better yet, don't bother looking for good medicine even if it's a cure for cancer if it happens to come from Israel. Why is that I see no boycott of China after what they do to Tibetan Monks, and they don't do suicide bombings or launch rockets at innocent Chinese civilians? I have never seen a boycott on Syria after what Al-Assad is doing to his own people. Whenever I see a Chinese say that Palestine should be freed, I will say the same back to them about Tibet. When it's a Russian, I will tell them free Chechnya. Even better, when it's an Irish person, I will respond by telling them to free Northern Ireland. As for the claim that Palestinians are treated as second class citizens and not even given voting rights, I can say the same thing for what is part of the US Commonwealth like Puerto Rico only because they are not states. Still, I find it a double standard for Americans to say that the Zionists are land grabbers when many of them won't give their lands back to the Native Americans, and there was evidence of them being forced to leave compared to the so-called Palestinians, so practice what you preach for once rather than just telling others to do what you say not as you do. Overall, I do feel that Palestine should be free, but from Hamas and Fatah, which are the true oppressors of the Palestinians.
Feb. 5, 2013, 5:33 pm
ty from pps says:
I heard that there is a branch of Hamas in Pleasantville, NY looking for you, Tal.
Feb. 5, 2013, 7:44 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
You better mean that as a joke, ty, because terrorist cells are no laughing matter. Al Qaeda has cells in both Africa and Asia, plus there is a possibility of them being in North America and Europe as well. Hezbollah is known for having cells that are in South America. There are probably other terrorist cells that exist as well besides the ones I am mentioning right now, and they need to be taken out as soon as possible to stop them. I can see why most will never take you seriously, if you think that terrorist groups are just a joke.
Feb. 6, 2013, 2:50 pm
ty from pps says:
No, Tal. I'm not joking... I heard they have a safe house near a golf course in Pleasantville, NY. Do you know any golf courses around there?
Feb. 6, 2013, 3:18 pm
Homey from Crooklyn says:
Rumble in the desert....never get between two warring Semitic tribes
Feb. 7, 2013, 3:17 pm

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