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Straight arrow: Bishop bans pols over gay marriage vote

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Talk about separation of church and state!

The Diocese of Brooklyn banned state officials who voted for same-sex marriage from honoring students or even appearing at Catholic schools and parishes as punishment for their role in destructing “the single most important institution in human history.”

Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio announced the ban two days after New York State passed a law allowing gay couples to tie the knot, igniting a war of words between the church and lawmakers.

Calling the bill another “nail in the coffin” of traditional marriage, DiMarzio asked Catholic schools and parishes to refuse any awards from Gov. Andrew Cuomo or state legislators who supported the measure, which passed June 24 and takes effect later this month.

DiMarzio also demanded “all pastors and principals to not invite any state legislator to speak or be present at any parish or school celebration.”

The ban was for the “foreseeable future,” and is already having an impact.

Assemblyman Joe Lentol (D–Williamsbu­rg) told us the $50 check he sent for a student at Our Lady of Mt. Carmel’s parish school on Withers Street in Williamsburg was returned — along with a copy of the bishop’s statement.

“I’m disappoint­ed,” said Lentol, a Catholic who voted for the bill, and often attends services at the church. “They’ve always accepted my checks.”

Mt. Carmel’s pastor, Joseph Calise, said he was following orders from DiMarzio.

“It couldn’t be done in Joe’s name,” Calise said of the annual award from Lentol. Calise added that a parishioner provided a matching award.

Lawmakers in the bishop’s dog house bristled at his hard stance.

They pointed to the exception in the law, secured by Republican leaders in exchange for their vote, that exempts religious institutions from accepting same-sex marriage.

“We would never force a Catholic priest to marry anyone they do not approve of,” said state Sen. Diane Savino (D–Bensonhurs­t).

And anger from the church shouldn’t stop Borough President Markowitz from following through on his plan to open Borough Hall for a slew of gay nuptials on July 25, the first day they’re legal.

“Whatever your convictions, love is love,” Markowitz said.

In an indication of how the ban will be enforced, Calise said state lawmakers were still welcome to attend regular church services and special events, such as Mt. Carmel’s beloved Feast of the Giglio.

“We wouldn’t stop them from coming” to pray, he said.

State Sen. Marty Golden (R–Bay Ridge), the lone Brooklyn senator to vote against the bill, will be spared the cold shoulder.

Churchgoers we spoke to Tuesday afternoon were supporting their bishop, saying DiMarzio made the right call.

“Inviting people that voted for [same-sex marriage] into schools is not appropriate,” said Lorenzo Regalado, a parishioner at the Cathedral Basilica of St. James in Downtown Brooklyn, and an opponent of the new law.

Charles Greene agreed.

“I wish more bishops would take steps like that,” he said.

— with Jared Foretek, Aaron Short and Thomas Tracy

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Reader Feedback

Cynthia from Clinton Hill says:
Marriage is between man and women,simple!! GAYS are just gonna have to go to city hall. thats what bloomy wants just to make money.
July 6, 2011, 12:47 am
James Peron says:
What a sense of priorities. They ban elected officials for not voting the Catholic line on issues that ought to be civil matters. But what do they do when priests sexually abuse children? Cover up, hide them, move them around, obfuscate investigations, etc. So apparently voting for equality rights is more of a problem to Catholic leaders than is the sexual abuse of children. Do they wonder why so many people have stopped listening to their nonsense?
July 6, 2011, 1:17 am
Gray says:
James you are exactly right. I am not sure many gays will want to be married by someone who may be in hiding for abusing children anyhow. I think this comment is so funny...

“Inviting people that voted for [same-sex marriage] into schools is not appropriate,” said Lorenzo Regalado

That is right, someone who votes for equal protection is the problem not someone who abuses kids.

Wow what has this world come to.
July 6, 2011, 4:09 am
Garett from Soho says:
Sodom and Gommorah - LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!
July 6, 2011, 5:07 am
jeff from Williamsburg says:
Homophobia is great. Gays should be given any rights. The Catholic church needs to protect the sanctity of Marriage. They also need to protect their pedophile priests and NOT report them to local authorities but relocate them....

Seriously how can anyone be Cathoilic after all that went done with the current Pope caught covering up all those cases of child abuse.

If you're so worried about children... protect them from the pedophilia inside the church!!!!
July 6, 2011, 7:07 am
Myrtle Willoughby from Fort Greene says:
When you use the idiotic verb "destructing" in your lede, you should expect moronic comments like most of those above. Did you ever hear of the word "destroying"?
July 6, 2011, 7:50 am
David Asset from Bay Ridge says:
What a hypocrite this Bishop DiMarzio is! The Church has been sheltering child abusing priests for years and they're worried now about same-sex marriage! Bishop heal thyself. I hope politicians who are banned by this bishop from his churches will stay strong and try to strengthen laws that clearly separate church from state. If the Bishop decides to back any candidates in the next elections or condemn any that voted for marriage equality, the non-profit tax status of his churches should be revoked since this is a clear violation of IRS tax code.
July 6, 2011, 7:50 am
Hoyt Schermerhorn from Downtown says:
That's because Gersh Kuntzman is an utter incompetent, and he sets the style for this ——ty rag.
July 6, 2011, 7:51 am
O2 from Wburg says:
pls explain exactly how gay marrage harms straight marrage. marring outside of one's religion & ethnicity hasnt harmed marrage. having more than one wife hasnt harmed marrage. nor has girls getting married at 17 & younger. marrage has changed & will continue to do so.
July 6, 2011, 7:56 am
K.C. says:
What ever happened to separation of church and state? Politicians are elected to represent their constituents! They are not elected to represent their own personal religious beliefs.

Many of my fellow conservatives have an almost knee-jerk hostility toward gay marriage. This does not make sense, because same-sex unions promote the values conservatives prize.

Marriage is one of the basic building blocks of our neighborhoods and our nation. At its best, it is a stable bond between two individuals who work to create a loving household and a social and economic partnership. We encourage couples to marry because the commitments they make to one another provide benefits not only to themselves but also to their families and communities. Marriage requires thinking beyond one's own needs. It transforms two individuals into a union based on shared aspirations, and in doing so establishes a formal investment in the well-being of society.

The fact that individuals who happen to be gay want to share in this vital social institution is evidence that conservative ideals enjoy widespread acceptance. Conservatives should celebrate this, rather than lament it.
July 6, 2011, 8:07 am
james says:
KC, i like your comment.
July 6, 2011, 8:22 am
JohnB from Bay Ridge says:
Who cares was the bishop says anyway? I can't imagine anyone wanting an honor from a group that has spent decades hiding their immoral and criminal activities. Many of my ancestors came to this country to get away from Catholic tyranny and it's time the American people told them to keep their nose out of civil law and tend to their own immoral activities.
July 6, 2011, 8:27 am
Hootie says:
JohnB, I agree - problem is, a lot of our local politicians check their balls at the church door. Not to mention the demagoguery of the local Conservative Party here. These pols aren't "God-fearing" they're "Mike Long-fearing"
July 6, 2011, 8:37 am
patriot from brooklyn says:
So, the Bishop is saying that marriage is a more important institution than the church. If he really believes that, then shouldn't he leave the church and get married?
July 6, 2011, 8:59 am
Lawrence from Park Slope says:
The Bishop must think this is some backward Latin American or Southern European Catholic country where the policies of the Church are the Law.

The same-sex marriage law does no harm to marriage between a man and a women. It does not destroy marriage, in fact it re-inforces the institution of marriage.
July 6, 2011, 9:41 am
bob hudock from bay ridge says:
The catholic church is becoming more and more irrelevant because of their own moral hypocrisy. Completely aside from the nauseatimg pedophilia scandal, the church heirarchy is full of gay men promoting an anti-gay agenda. Once they finish ejecting everyone who cannot stomach their hypocrisy there will be hardly anyone left. We can then ignore the few remaining dead-enders and go about the business of building a just, civil society based on modern scientific knowledge instead of ancient, calcified church dogma,.
July 6, 2011, 9:46 am
Ruben from Bronx says:
I find cannibalism immoral. Aren't Catholics also cannibals? Look up transubstantiation. Ironic that priests also eat the young, metaphorically speaking.
July 6, 2011, 10:30 am
VoiceOfTruth from Burg says:
They let kid diddlers, torturers, war mongerers, mass murderers and rapists show up but god forbit someone not gets gay married, but merely allows citizens to get gay married in a non-CAtholic ceremony. Sanctimonious closet cases flouncing around in lace frocks and perfumed incense and mouth raping little boys have very little moral authority.
July 6, 2011, 10:37 am
Greg Strahm says:
Why stop there? Why not excommunicate all of us who were born gay. Oh, and don't forget the estimated 30-33% of homosexuals in the priesthood. Where do I sign up to be excommunicated? I would be proud to wear that badge. I don't need you or the catholic church to live and lead a christian life you pompous, bigoted, hypocritical, windbag.
July 6, 2011, 10:48 am
Rick Austin from Long Island City says:
The Catholic church is amazingly selective. If I'm not mistaken, the church is officially opposed to the death penalty. But I guess life (at least the post-birth, adult kind) isn't important enough to them to make too big an issue of it, right?
July 6, 2011, 10:53 am
irishsmile says:
Good for this bishop! Speaking of abusive priests... the John Jay Law School investigation report on abuse found that over 82% of the abuse was against boys and young men. This is obviously a same-sex attraction problem. There is an unhealthy attraction to young males by some in the clergy. These guys needs to be kicked out!
July 6, 2011, 1:23 pm
Ahab from Bay Rij says:
Keep fighting that loosing battle against equality! The catholic church is responsible for more human suffering than any other institution in the history of the world and it is a shame that even when its relevance is at a minimum it continues to push for the forces of division and bigotry.
July 6, 2011, 1:40 pm
Jim from Cobble Hill says:
No magical Jesus cracker for you! ...And pay no attention to that altar boy behind the curtain.
July 6, 2011, 1:50 pm
Art C from Cobble Hill says:
For those who hate the Church and its teachings that come directly from God Himself, we continue to pray for your conversion to a life of holiness. May the Good Lord defend his earthly servant, Bishop DiMarzio, as he does his job in teaching the faithful on the crisis of the day!
July 6, 2011, 2:35 pm
Joey Bots Not says:
Lots of haters here!
July 6, 2011, 2:40 pm
Mike from Bay Ridge says:
If God doesn't destroy New York, he owes Sodom and Gommorah and apology!
July 6, 2011, 3:40 pm
Scott123 from Brook says:
The gays are destroying marriage by reducing it to a meaningless event/party and they are also destroying the church from within by molesting post puebescent boys.
It seems to me that the problem is the darkening of the mind due to the sin of sodomy....
I know because i have same sex attraction and am trying to be chaste as the chirch teaches....
It is a terrible addiction that needs to be preached against, protecting children from its influence and counteracted in the public sphere.
This current gay-craze will yield terrible results because both natue and nature's God will not be mocked.
July 6, 2011, 3:45 pm
Jay Jay says:
The Church should ban all heterosexual marriages beccause there is a chance they will procreate and have a homosexual child. Abolish ALL marriages. God RoolZ!
July 6, 2011, 4:04 pm
Scott Rose from Manhattan says:
Well Cuomo could still give all those Catholic schools Bigotry Awards, even if they won't accept them because he got marriage equality passed (with the so-called "religious exemptions," which of course do not placate religious bigots).
July 6, 2011, 4:08 pm
Angel from Hell's Kitchen says:
If gays are ruining the sanctity of marriage, then what does divorce do? I don't see the church banning the govt officials because they allow divorce. Or why not ban people who are divorced from coming inside their precious church?
July 6, 2011, 4:12 pm
carmen says:
im sick and tire of some people who are always pulling the child abuse card when they don't approve of an act by the church. get over it, the church is paying dearly for it, and innocent priest are being persecuted because of people like you.if you are tryng to bring the church down forget it, has been tried for 2000 years and has not happen will not happened because thats what Jesus promise. no one in the church wants child abuse, its a tragic thing happening, but not exclusive to the church, what we should do is better screening of these men when day present themselves to the priesthood and i believe that is happening now.
July 6, 2011, 4:55 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
Who cares if the Catholic Church or any other religious institution won't allow for marrying gays. They can always get married by the state where it's already ruled legal. It's not like they have any say in this anyway. Let's start living in the 21st century rather than the 12th century already. Times change as we evolve. I still can't believe how religious institutions are still stuck in the past and start being in the present. For the record, I consider myself a Zionist in the words of Theodore Herzl, which is a Jew in name only in that my religion is nothing more than a figurehead as I accept anything that is normally prohibitted, so I will be having that pepporoni pizza.
July 6, 2011, 4:59 pm
Anthony from Staten Island says:
STOP PUSHING RELIGION DOWN OUR THROATS !!!
THIS IS NOT A RELIGION BASED ISSUE NOR DO GIVE A —— ABOUT A RELIGIOUS CEREMONY......UNBELIEVABLE THE AMOUNT OF TIMES THIS HAS TO BE SAID FOR THE IDIOTS WHO ARE PLAIN DUMB !!!!
July 6, 2011, 5:05 pm
Bernie from Williamsburg says:
I did not know that The Diocese of Brooklyn was so wealthy that they could afford to throw away Thousands of Dollars from the performance of Gay Weddings, not to mention that when these same people adopt (because they plan on having a family) the education $$ it will bring that into the local church and Diocese. I wonder if the Other Local Religious establishments are going to want to welcome your rejections with open arms into their fold. The Church has become and is acting like a business that wants to be PC (Politically Correct in their own definition.) With Divorces UP and Marriages down you would think they would be looking at this in a different light. Especially with all those Legal Settlements pending for their past transgressions
July 6, 2011, 6:18 pm
John from Omaha says:
Lawmakers thought the bishop's response harsh?
He challenges Catholics to be faithful to their Church's teachings and suffers being branded a bigot.
Wow.
Glad I don't live in New York.

I've heard that the Northeast tends to be rather liberal and determined to redefine morals. 'Twould appear that's true. Many of these responses reflect a sad state of mind.
July 6, 2011, 11:43 pm
John from Omaha says:
Angel,
Your comment doesn't quite make sense to me. Divorce does, indeed, harm marriage, but divorce has been a civil, legal procedure from the get-go, not one that the Church can address. Catholic faithful seeking to live the Church's life don't acknowledge divorce as valid any more than needed; certainly the Church doesn't acknowledge a marital breakup as moral, unless a couple pursues a Decree of Nullity. Even that doesn't break a bond that can be proven to have existed, but discerns whether sacramental marriage happened or not.
Also unless I'm gravely mistaken, Catholics DID oppose the loosening of divorce requirements--quite vigorously--when such proposals came about some 40 or 50 years ago.

Unless you wish to tighten those laws, I'd say your comment needs some help.
July 6, 2011, 11:53 pm
Aspen from Colorado says:
Marriage-Smarriage. Once upon a time being gay was sexy and erotic. Even sneaking around, winking and down lowing. It was loose,free,outside. Now we're to rejoice in conventions?
July 7, 2011, 12:09 am
Pack at the Track from Where the horses were says:
Bishop D' has just closed the stable doors after the most recent herd of horses ran away. He's just having a hissy-fit that so many legislators told him not to let the barn door hit him in the ass on the Gay Marriage vote, especially the majority of Republican state senators that allowed the vote to go forward to the whole senate. No punishment for them -- what a phony.

Another reason that Bishop D' wants to close the barn doors is so nobody outside can get a wiff of the stench inside. Instead, what he should be doing is mucking out all the stalls in the Augean Stables of his Catholic Diocese of the Church in the 21st Century.

He could start by reversing his opposition to real remedial legislation for the pedophile mess left by so many of his diocese' priests, who were active pedophiles, and his own continuing enabler policy of blocking access to the truth in most cases.
July 7, 2011, 12:27 am
joe from bay ridge says:
Soon, people will be able to marry their dog.
July 7, 2011, 12:33 am
CS from LES says:
Did someone tweet for all the angry, nasty gay activists to head over to Bishop Di Marzio and gang upon him? Did a double-tweet go out for the formerly Catholic gays to get there punches in? FYI re: the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church- perpetrators- oh, like 90% of them were homosexuals who (strangely) had a sexual attraction to young adolescent boys and somehow convinced or persuaded them to have sex. I'm surprised you're so outraged by that. I bet some of belong to NAMBLA- no? It seem to be a double standard going on-or do most male gays forbid or deplore sex with adolescent boys? Of course those homosexual priests should not have been priests...and in case you don't know- their actions were in defiance of the priesthood and never permitted or approved of, even if they were covered up. The liberal, progressive policies of the last 40- 50 years have already done damage to marriage, the family, and morality and virtue. BTW, drop the church/state argument PULLEASE!. Gay 'marriage' is an oxymoron. It's an affront to NATURE, not religion.
July 7, 2011, 1:43 am
Soledad from Bay Ridge says:
When my child attended Catholic grammar school, he accepted awards from both Vito Fossella and Eliot Spitzer, two "model" citizens! The children are the ones missing out on getting recognition for achievements here.
July 7, 2011, 6:53 am
AJ from Bay Ridge says:
In response to Cynthia from Clinton Hill: I beg to differ with you, Cynthia. Same-sex couples can, and probably will, have church weddings in Brooklyn. Episcopal Church Weddings, for contrary to popular opinion, the Roman Catholic Church does _not_ have an exclusive say on whom God loves...

The Episcopal Bishop of Long Island's response to the passage of the same-sex marriage law: http://www.dioceselongisland.org/newsDetail.php?Bishop-s-Statement-on-Passage-of-Marriage-Law-75
July 7, 2011, 7:15 am
VoiceOfTruth from El Burgo says:
You want people to stop calling out the moral hypocrisy of your cult, stop wearing lace frocks and raping boys in their mouthes and bottoms. Sick twisted freaks who obsess over people getting gay married after rubbing one out on the back of a voulnerable 9 year old beg for criticism. This was not isolated, it was a systematic, worldwide, rape cartel and coverup machine. Your dollars in the basket went to support a man who raped parentless 8 year old kids who cried while a sweaty priest in robes and dresses violated them.
July 7, 2011, 11:04 am
Mark from marcus66502@yahoo.com says:
"The Diocese of Brooklyn banned state officials who voted for same-sex marriage"

Who cares? Why would anybody want to set foot in a place that spreads lies and hate?
July 7, 2011, 11:55 am
Mike from Bay Ridge says:
In response to Bernie from Williamsburg: based on your logic the Catholic Church is throwing away millions of dollars annually by not performing abortions and could be making extra cash building electric chairs and lethal injections for states with the death penalty. If a Catholic man wants to marry another man, his Catholic faith is in question, just like if a good liberal wants to vote for a solid conservative, his liberal leanings are in question.

Let them go Protestant, that's why they exist in the first place: as a refuge for those who don't want to adhere to Catholic teachings.
July 7, 2011, Noon
charlene from new england says:
Many of the responses state WHO CARES!!!!

Well someone is New England north of border of the Arch dioceses of Boston cares. THANKYOU YOUR EXCELLENCY you are a breath of fresh air.
July 7, 2011, 3:43 pm
BreathOfFreshAir from New England says:
You know who could use a breath of fresh air? That kid whose mouth was forced on the sweaty genitals of his disgusting old rapist priest.
July 7, 2011, 4:51 pm
blais8 says:
Anti-true marraige people are posting some rude, idiotic things here... funny, you'd think they'd have something constructive to say about "gay marriage"... guess not!! I can't think one one good thing to say about it myself. it will bring us all down to something less than the humans we are.
July 7, 2011, 6:01 pm
Who's a Straight Arrow from Off the Reservation says:
Nicholas DiMarzio just can't accept that legislators from all over his diocese essentially told him to "Hit the road mack and don't come back."

There were very few exceptions...

The unkindest cut of all had to be the Republicans in the State Senate, who wouldn't vote to keep the bill from a vote. Msgr. Harrington complained that there was no debate or sober consideration of the Marriage Equality Bill; whose fault was that? Maybe it was the New York State Catholic Bishops who were more than a day late and more than a pound short when they decided to send in the second stringer from Brooklyn to do the job instead of the Archbishop. Of course, Dolan probably knew it all was a lost cause and sent his underling to get a pie in the face or was that egg, maybe both.
July 7, 2011, 9:26 pm
Americano from brooklyn Heights says:
Yes, It is great the someone in the clergy class is saying wait a minute here! But my issue with the clergy class they have no backbone! Where are the voices, stewards of God when it comes to:

All the unnecessary wars America is engaged in, where are the voices? Where our boys and girls, going to the war fronts 3 to 5 tours, risking life and limbs -- no voices?

Where are their voices on the million abortions every year, for years -- 40 plus years? Again voiceless clergies!

On out of wedlock yoking -- now a standard in the US - -no voices?

Why now on gay marriage?
July 8, 2011, 1:21 pm
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
This bishop should worry more about the pedophiles in his church than about two people of the same gender being married. I am sure many know which one is more criminal than the others. Better yet, I have got an 11th Commandment, "Keep thy religion to thyself and within thy place of worship." If any religious institution really wants to be political, then start paying taxes like the rest of us do. Also, I would refuse donating to any religious institution that refuses to accept any form of homosexuality. Also I find it hypocritical for the church to be against it when it always says "Jesus Love All" in the very bible itself.
July 8, 2011, 6:34 pm
Timothy Kincaid from Los Angeles says:
Vote for gay marriage? Well then you can't give money to needy children! Take that! (sometimes you just have to marvel at what the 'people of God' think are God's priorities)
July 8, 2011, 8:29 pm
Tyco from Bay Ridge says:
I don't understand the wacky reasoning that gay marriage will supposedly turn NYC into Sodom and Gomorrah. Marriage stabilizes populations-- and it will do that for gay men and women. One would think God would welcome that. Well, rational people would think that God would welcome that.

Looking back at American history, we didn't allow slaves or interracial couples marry. The debates were just as heated-- using the Bible to prove they didn't deserve to marry.

This too shall pass...
July 8, 2011, 10:31 pm
iGhost from Coney Island says:
To make religious people accept gay marriages and more than that - conduct gay marriage ceremonies it's like declaration, that from now on, not only bees bring honey, but cockroaches as well.
Is cityhall marriage not good enough for gays?
July 9, 2011, 12:08 am
Tal Barzilai from Pleasantville, NY says:
You got that wrong, iGhost. None of the religious institutions will be forced to perform any gay marriage cermonies if they choose not to. This bishop doesn't want anyone to do marriages for gays even if it's not his own church, which is what some of us here against him saying. He doesn't want it to exist at all, not just within his place of worship. If you actually bother to read the article, he is attacking any politician that supported same sex marriage. Just hearing this only makes me want to stay away from religion even more.
July 9, 2011, 4:12 pm
Tenere Occhio d' DiMarzio from Windsor Terrace says:
--- "I believe the passage of same-sex marriage is another 'nail in the coffin' of marriage"

Does the Brooklyn Bishop believe that comparing marriage to a coffin is a good way to sell the "vocation" of marriage to young Catholics.

Instead of fighting losing political fights against same-sex marriage in the political arena, Bishop DiMarzio should spend more time on his day job, like trying to convince straight young Catholics that they should be getting married in the Church.
July 10, 2011, 1:13 am
jamoke from bay ridge says:
This is a very strange article, starting with the first paragraph.
I'm not ever sure 'destructing' is a word. The word this author wanted to employ was 'destroying'.
But the more salient point here is does'nt really matter what secular politicians say or do, or why they felt compelled to vote the way they did.
The universal undestanding, from time immemorial, in every culture and religion on this planet, is of marriage as the the committed union of a man and a woman, for the primary purpose of ensuring the survival of society and the continuation of the human race.
No amount of insanity changes that definition.
July 10, 2011, 10:28 am
Is Jamoke just a jock from Bay Ridge says:
Jamoke must have gotten his education as a prize in a Crackerjack box; or maybe he's an atheletic type.

His premise as to "universal understanding", and "every culture and religion" is as flawed as his conclusion. Long and short --- it's not true --- there are lots of ways of continuing the human race even if we limit the choices to "normal" sexual reproduction --- and the "survival of society" doesn't need monogamous hetero-sexual marriage because there have been many societies that didn't follow that model.

Jamoke next time you play, pull up your jock first, you'll get hurt letting it dangle the way you do.
July 10, 2011, 7:12 pm
cynthia from Clinton hill says:
@Aj.There's no way the catholic would let that happen.Dream on!!!! Ain't gonna happen.
July 10, 2011, 10:32 pm
Tenere Occhio d' DiMarzio from PPW says:
The Bishop's most recent "Put Out Into the Deep" column is another hodge podge of concepts.

It includes yet another does of weekly whining over the kick in the pants that BND got from the legislature over the Marriage Equality Bill (soon to be law).

It also includes some skewed American history. Certainly "Founding Fathers" Adams and Jefferson would have been aghast at direct lobbying by a prelate-representative of the Church of Rome during state deliberations on a law. The only doubt as to the dual loyalty of the prelate would have been whether he had any loyalty whatsoever to the individual state or to "these" United States.

Notably, Jefferson (and later in life even Adams) would have pointed out that the founding documents clearly stated "Congress shall make no law regarding... religion..." and that, of course, the right to make such laws would have been reserved to the states and the people.

July 11, 2011, 12:16 am
jamoke says:
What the Catholic Church, the Diocese of Brooklyn, thinks on the matter.
A bit of clarity for the confused:

http://thetablet.org/?p=1202

@Anon guy: short of universal rent-a-womb (and infant selling), the natural order of things is pretty clear: it was covered in your grade school human biology class. 'Many societies' don't follow the model of monogamous, heterosexual marriage (there is no other type of marriage)'? List them.
Juvenile ad hominem insult is all you have left.
July 12, 2011, 12:24 am
Just Smokin' Jamoke from In the Brooklyn Diocese says:
Jamoke can't be serious when he says, "...there is no other type of marriage)'? List them."

Okay, but only an abbreviated list --
Today in the good old USA: Big Love... fundamentalist LDS; serial monogamy and shared child rearing (what's now being practiced by most younger "Catholics", because of divorce and remarriage; and it's what is actually encouraged by the likes of your "thetablet.com"); the alternative is launch 'em and leave 'em matriarchal child rearing as practiced in the 'hood (also very popular in the Diocese of Brooklyn).

From our nation's pre-history through the 20th Century, there were several types of family-units among the tribal native Americans, some of it included something resembling monogamous hetro-sexual marriage, but not much.

In our good "old time religion" of pre-Christian times: from the tribes of Israel from Abraham Moses through David and Solomon... multiple wives, concubines and occasionally other "abominations"; in Rome (whose organizational methodology was adopted by the Church of Rome)... you name it, it's all there, including the pimping-off of daughters and handing the sons over to be educated by pederast tutors and libertines (sound familiar?).

My favorite on the list would be the 19th Century story told in music and words in the 20th Century by Rogers and Hammerstein. Visually it's demonstrated in "March of the Siamese Children", but more pointedly made in the punchline "...No wonder you're the wonder of Siam!"

Jamoke, just pull up that jock, take some deep breaths, it only hurts for a little while.
July 12, 2011, 9:04 pm
Eric Blair from An Animal Farm in 1984 says:
Somethings are worth repeating:

"State Sen. Marty Golden, Conservative Party chairman Mike Long, and Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio exerted tremendous amounts of pressure to defeat the marriage equality bill. It is sad that so much of their time, resources and influence were spent on preventing people from getting married, instead of focused on real threats to families, like unemployment, debt, foreclosure, child abuse, domestic violence and lack of affordable health care." -- McMorrow Letter to the "Brooklyn Paper"

The hacks, Golden, Long and yes, DiMarzio, want everybody to overlook how pathetic and vicious they were in absolute failure.

Their game won't work --- see the comments by Gregory Lynn and Deborah Nuzzo, both 6/25/11 to Bishop DiMarzio's "Put Out Into The Deep... The Sanctity of Marriage" in The Tablet June 15, 2011. He's surely too small a man in too big a job -- he needs to be Scrantonized, before it's too late.
July 12, 2011, 9:26 pm
Catholic Christian from Where Charity and Love Prevail says:
In Huffpost Religion, Catholic Researcher Joseph Amodeo recounted that retired Brooklyn Auxiliary Bishop Joseph Sullivan from Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights has written about LGBT Catholics that, “Catholic teachings compel us to work toward the elimination of unjust structures and to treat people with dignity, regardless of their state in life or their beliefs. My own understanding of this community has also evolved over the course of four decades of ministry.” Bishop Sullivan goes further saying that LGBT Catholics, “are not rebels in their churches, but people who have taken spiritual messages of inclusiveness and welcoming to heart.” (See all of Bishop Sullivan’s Guest Editorial in the Buffalo News and the positive response to it at:
www.buffalonews.com/editorial-page/from-our-readers/another-voice/article441238.ece
According to Amodeo, “By staying in the Church and living our lives, we are expressing our belief in the inclusive message of Christ; we are choosing to ask, seek and knock with the hope that one day "the door will be opened" (Luke 11:10)
Joseph Amodeo: Gay in the Pew: LGBT Catholics and Church Teaching
www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-amodeo/are-gay-catholics-heretic_b_891538.html
July 15, 2011, 9:41 pm

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